Pac Is A Genius
Dr. Jeckyll & Mr. Hyde – “Genius Rap“
from Genius Rap 12″ (Profile, 1981)
164 readers thought Tupac was a genius while 125 mediocrities voted otherwise. A surprisingly narrow margin.
Todays poll, to determine the best southern rap group, is less controversial than usual. Outkast and the Geto Boys were left out of the discussion because they would surely be the de facto vote for knownots, thus inaccurately skewing this all too important data.
April 5th, 2008 at 3:39 pm
Man, Noz is getting all BOLian with these polls. what up?
And 2Pac is not a genius.
April 5th, 2008 at 3:45 pm
“Outkast and the Geto Boys were left out of the discussion because they would surely be the de facto vote for knownots”
HAHAHA. That is true though.
April 5th, 2008 at 3:46 pm
Dude wait, what about Little Brother?
April 5th, 2008 at 4:04 pm
“Dude wait, what about Little Brother?”
*tumbleweeds*
Chef – Bol is my hero.
April 5th, 2008 at 4:24 pm
my vote: http://www.xxlmag.com/online/?p=7127
April 5th, 2008 at 4:31 pm
seriously? i love jim crow but damn.
April 5th, 2008 at 4:51 pm
“seriously?”
gotcha.
April 5th, 2008 at 5:27 pm
Wouldn’t Geto Boys vs. Outkast be another interesting poll?
April 5th, 2008 at 5:56 pm
But they are the two best… this poll is just rigged so UGK, aka the 42nd best rap duo of all time, can win. I voted for Eightball and MJG though – several classic albums and the fact that both members are actually good rappers is a huge plus. Oh and what about TRU?
April 5th, 2008 at 6:08 pm
Soul food is like the fifth best album evar, so anything but goodie is, well wrong..
April 5th, 2008 at 6:21 pm
knownots or not outkast is the best out of the south
April 5th, 2008 at 7:36 pm
COULDNT YOU THINK OF 2 BETTER GROUPS BESIDES 2 LIVE CREW AND D4L?
HASNT D4L ONLY RELEASED ONE ALBUM?
April 5th, 2008 at 7:58 pm
I love you how qualify a bunch of mid-level regional acts as great and then throw Outkast and Geto Boys under a bus because god forbid New Yorkers respect them. Sin of all sins!
Here’s a biting truth 8Ball/MJG and Goodie Mob are the basic definition of overrated. And Soul Food is boring. Yeah, I said it.
April 5th, 2008 at 7:59 pm
UGK by default.
April 5th, 2008 at 10:05 pm
“8Ball/MJG and Goodie Mob are the basic definition of overrated”
aren’t you the guy who likes that song by the knux? no thank you. now that is boring.
personally, i refuse limitation.
April 6th, 2008 at 3:40 am
Most New Yorkers would rather listen to Papoose or the dude from their block who dropped a mixtape talking about he’s the next to blow over the Geto Boys or Outkast anyway, so what they think in this situation doesn’t matter. I’m from there so don’t get all pissy.
April 6th, 2008 at 4:51 am
how bout the hotboys? three 6 mafia?
April 6th, 2008 at 11:42 am
any group that’s done a song w/ outkast shouldn’t count.
April 6th, 2008 at 12:38 pm
I put Three 6 in the original poll, I don’t know where the hell they went. Added them again. Hopefully they can catch up.
I consider the Hot Boys a supergroup, in that half the members already had somewhat established careers when they formed.
April 6th, 2008 at 3:34 pm
Soul Food’s not boring!!!
April 6th, 2008 at 3:39 pm
I voted for Goodie Mob.. I guess cause of the fact most of their music I was able to rock to back then…
April 6th, 2008 at 3:46 pm
Such a difficult question. Not sure why D4L made it on here and I wonder what kind of points a group gets for furthering a movement but not really being that great (2 Live). Hot Boys should be here. If you’re going to exclude them for thing “super”, why not exclude three 6 for the fact that the name 36 represents like 18 different lineups that range in quality. I would vote hands down for devil shit era 3-6, but probably wouldn’t even read a post about Last 2 Walk. I abstain and cast my vote for a repoll
April 6th, 2008 at 3:50 pm
if the poll was “most consistent” southern artist, I’d vote UGK cause goodie mob and ball & g have put out some weak shit
April 6th, 2008 at 5:11 pm
i push for an addition of the hot boys, because cash money needs to be represented, as they have been arguably one of the most consistently on point originators of a specific style in hip hop history.
April 6th, 2008 at 10:55 pm
wow, Three 6 Mafia is losing to D4L;
Guerilla Maab should’ve been an option
April 6th, 2008 at 11:50 pm
hot boys collectively came out with 3 tight songs. project bitch is cool n all but honestly, the hot boys are nothing more than aiiiight
April 7th, 2008 at 10:38 am
I have a hard time taking seriously the opinion of anyone who thinks “Soul Food” was boring.
April 7th, 2008 at 3:45 pm
Fuk these polls, where’s your review of Still the Baddest my man??????????
April 7th, 2008 at 4:35 pm
I’m not sure I could compete with Khia’s critique.
April 7th, 2008 at 8:01 pm
“I have a hard time taking seriously the opinion of anyone who thinks “Soul Food” was boring.”
So boring. I think Cee-Lo’s entire solo career reiterates my entire basic point.
And I may be tripping with 8/Ball & MJG but I stand firmly by my assertion that Goodie Mob being the Killaz Beez to Outkast’s Wu-Tang.
P.S. It’s annoying when somebody fucks with the canon, ain’t it? Let this be a lesson.
April 7th, 2008 at 9:06 pm
whatever, dude. the point still stands. “fucking with the canon” isn’t exactly impressive either. want to draw some attention to yourself? attack a widely acknowledged classic. it’s the critic’s equivalent of starting beefs with more well-known rappers to kickstart your career. not that people shouldn’t do it, because canons are built to be teared down. just don’t get it twisted like it’s somehow bold and controversial to attack a “canon” album.
April 7th, 2008 at 9:46 pm
“just don’t get it twisted like it’s somehow bold and controversial to attack a “canon” album.”
Exactly my point. That what’s noz does frequently. That’s what I’m calling out. If I stand for anything as a critic, it’s the hypocrisy of revisionism.
It’s really annoying when people take a shit on people like Tupac as if the jury on his greatness didn’t come back with the answer ten years ago.
And as for Goodie Mobb/Soul Food, I’ll stand by the statement that Soul Food is boring because I think it is but that album is considered a classic for better or worse and I fully will acknowledge that.
Related Topic: The NY/South debate is moot at this point because the Midwest is quietly the most important region making music right now.
April 7th, 2008 at 9:46 pm
I’m not gonna go as far to say Soul Food is boring, but it definitely is at least somewhat overrated in these internets circles.
April 7th, 2008 at 9:48 pm
And the irony of that Tupac pic on CB…
April 7th, 2008 at 10:24 pm
Oh Noz,
I totally forgot to mention. I appreciate the go-go shit you sent me a week or two back. Backyard Band is ridiculous. You are right. Thanks for that shit. It’s appreciated.
April 7th, 2008 at 10:44 pm
Noz, much respect for spreading go-go to the uneducated. I grew up with it, and, for sure, Backyard is my band, repping raw NW DC. I know you probably got some classic shit in your archive. Post that shit on here b.
April 7th, 2008 at 11:20 pm
uhh, doc, in his own words: http://www.cocaineblunts.com/blunts/?p=515
i don’t know if i necessarily agree, but there you go.
April 7th, 2008 at 11:22 pm
well, sure, it would be totally ludicrous to sit around on the internet maliciously attacking tupac’s legacy. I thought this was just some half-drunk bullshitting type discussion for fun, though. anyway, I maintain my stance that tupac’s importance was only tangentially related to his music but I’m sure a lot of dudes would disagree. one thing about revisionism – to be sure it perpetrates a lot of bullshit but it also occasionally performs minor miracles like resurrecting forgotten artists or causing people to reevuluate an artist’s work that was originally maligned. and it seems pretty silly to attack cocaine blunts, where at least half the posts focus on ultra-obscure rap cassettes from 1992 or mythical Good Life Cafe related 12″s, of all people for cheapshot revisionism
if you really dislike “Soul Food” that’s cool – I was mostly kidding. It is one of the few albums where I struggle to understand how anyone who takes rap seriously doesn’t like it, but then again I’ve never like “The Chronic”. equating Goodie Mob with the Killa Beez is more than a little harsh though (c’mon, Das EFX to EPMD at least).
April 8th, 2008 at 12:44 am
Well sure, Noz is one of the best music writers in terms of being one of the best pure archivists of rap music on the planet. Nobody does what he does. Hence why I read his site but Noz has somewhat of an anti-NY/anti-canon bias for reasons I can’t really figure out (Noz, aren’t you from Jersey?). He’d probably beg to differ, though. It seems he’s often willing to throw the classics under a bus in favor of some obscure Bay area act that literally had one good record that only made noise in a small market.
Now, it’s absolutely important that those small regional acts get included in the discussion because they pave the way and often inform more successful and influential acts. But we’ve got bring context to them. If a group sold 200,000 copies in Mississippi in ‘96, even if they were doing the proverbial “greatest shit ever,” it’s not gonna have the same influence and importance as a group who sold 10 million across the nation. (Not saying sales dictate everything but they should be included. Which is why I’m loathe to say Get Rich Or Die Tryin’ is a classic even if I hate the album)
I want people to consider context of the artist. It helps inform the music that was made and helps eliminate what can be seen as the unfair judgment of hindsight. It’s why 2 Live Crew in ‘88 made classic music but D4L in 2008 makes the worst music known to man even if stylistically they aren’t far removed. What acts like 2 Live Crew did were original, what D4L does is corny and derivative. (As derivative as Little Brother ripping off Primo and Pete Rock.).
And yeah, Goodie Mob are better than the Killa Beez. That’s harsh but I just don’t particularly dig Soul Food. It’s way too Love Below-y (for lack of a better word) and just doesn’t have the iconic songs that Outkast made. It would be as if you made an entire album of Spottieottiedogalisciouses. It’s bit too much.
April 8th, 2008 at 12:58 am
hot boys collectively came out with 3 tight songs. project bitch is cool n all but honestly, the hot boys are nothing more than aiiiight
posted by m-greezy — April 6, 2008 @ 11:50 pm
bulllllllshit
April 8th, 2008 at 12:59 am
also DocZeus more like DocZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ amirite
April 8th, 2008 at 1:50 am
On a less sarcastic note than usual, I just want to weigh in and say that, some years ago, I bought a copy of Soul Food with high hopes and… I found it boring. To me it just droned on and on. I could revisit it and see if I was missing something, but seeing that I don’t even like Cell Therapy to this day, I kinda doubt it. And it’s not that I don’t like Goodie Mob per se – for example, the song they did on DJ Muggs’s first compilation album is amazing. Cee-Lo’s verse steals the whole album. But to me Ridin Dirty and Soul Food just pale in comparison to Comin Out Hard and On Top of The World. Perhaps the problem I have with UGK/Goodie Mob is that they attempt to rap over stuff that’s influenced by southern blues and whatnot, but to my ears at least they just have no clue what they’re doing. Whereas Mannie Fresh and KLC and DJ Paul/Juicy J succeeded in this respect. Unfortunately they just didn’t have the best rappers to work with. Now I know that’s a completely minority opinion from another planet, but I’ve just always found UGK’s beats to be kind of boilerplate. Goodie Mob’s aren’t boilerplate but they’re dull.
April 8th, 2008 at 2:57 am
“also DocZeus more like DocZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ amirite”
Homey Please, Best Blogger Alive.
April 8th, 2008 at 3:07 am
On Mannie Fresh-
About two weeks ago, I’m at a party in Spanish Harlem and I’m in a debate with some aspiring emcee in the kitchen over the best producers alive (yeah i know dorky as hell but whatever…) and he was trying to remember this “Fat Southern Producer From The ’90s” and claim him one of the best producers alive. I mistook him for talking about the immortal Jazze Pha and proceeded to freak out and dry gag at the notion. He seemed to get a bit pissed. But anybody who claims Jazze Pha is a great producer deserves the hate.
A week later, I realize he’s talking about Mannie Fresh. I still made the right decision.
April 8th, 2008 at 3:43 am
Doc, in all fairness I think you’re misreading my work. I am about expanding the canon, not destroying it. I did grow up in Jersey. I love New York rap. Other than my “Reasonable Doubt: not as good as Ready to Die or Illmatic” post, I can’t think of too many occasions where I’ve “thrown classics under the bus.” I don’t write about, say Hard To Earn or Stunts Blunts and Hip Hop that frequently because they’ve been endlessly dissected. I love those records, I just don’t think there’s much to be added to that discussion. There must be two dozen of blogs dedicated to posting nothing but Kurious b-sides. If I think of an interesting way to approach “Mansion and a yacht” I definitely will. Until then I am perfectly content to just listen to that shit once in a while and nod my head.
And what you fail to realize is that, in the grand scheme, many of the 90s nyc rap classics are as minor as the 200,000 selling mississippi act. They just got better press. Seriously how many copies do you think Organized Konfusion sold? And that’s not a knock at all, I love that shit. But I think NY’s insularity only hurt itself, and we’re hearing the results of that today. While they were keeping it real to a fault these acts were touring and building bridges with other artists across the nation and the numbers speak to that. Dudes in Houston were up on Dayton Family, Ohio banged B-Legit, DC loves Devin. The everywhere but east murder dog chitlin circuit is/was bigger than anyone realized. Aside from D4L, every act in this poll has multiple plaques on their wall. The same can’t be said for Pete & CL. Which is an unfortunate reality, but one that is also inaccurately reflected in the hip hop canon.
And Padraig alluded to this, but when I do post some ultra obscure 5 copies only demo bullshit, I go to great lengths to explicitly point out their irrelevance. Those are posted more as curiosities. But guess what – E-40 or Ball & G or whoever, yeah they’re pretty important.
April 8th, 2008 at 8:51 am
“I’ve just always found UGK’s beats to be kind of boilerplate.”
to be honest, i felt that way too for a long time. but then i heard bun’s verse on “tough guy,” my radio show co-host played them a bunch and i decided to give ugk another chance. it was a great reconsideration. personally, i’ve always loved goodie mob. yea, t-mo and khujo can especially rap awkwardly, but those sort of slip ups make the music a bit more exciting.
also, didn’t the rap world have this same talk sometime last year after the straight bangin’/passion of the weiss poll? can we at least all agree that many of us are coming into these discussions with a love or at least knowledge of the “canon?” i just want to keep reminiscing over what “Bird Shit” could have been.
April 8th, 2008 at 11:39 am
I thought everyone had that meeting after “Kingdom Come” to declare Reasonable Doubt overrated but great and not in the top 5 best albums? Like when we agreed to reassess Pac’s lack of good beats and deficiencies as a lyricist?
UGK is completely going to win this poll.
And yeah, the focus on obscure shit is a huge reason the site is great.
April 8th, 2008 at 1:27 pm
for the record i wasn’t trying to set off yet another agonizing discussion about the “canon”, just expressing my undying love for “Soul Food”. i do think the idea of expansion sounds like x1000 times better than destruction. i spend too much time listening to detroit techno and old UK hardcore and like arthur russell to really have a valid opinion on rap’s canon anyway. i guess I should take this opportunity to thank you, noz, for being one of the main inspirations in getting me to go back and listen to tons of southern rap i previously dismissed. and for all the freestyle fellowship-related goodness.
April 9th, 2008 at 1:23 pm
“Aside from D4L, every act in this poll has multiple plaques on their wall. The same can’t be said for Pete & CL. Which is an unfortunate reality, but one that is also inaccurately reflected in the hip hop canon.”
I don’t get it. Would the canon be more accurate if it mirrored sales?
April 9th, 2008 at 8:24 pm
Pac’s a Genius, no shit Sherlock
it’s amazing how many haters came over the years…
now about the south thing.
it’s gotta go between UGK & the Goodie Mob
i’ll pick the latter, cause Cee-Lo is just as good as Dre 3000 & Big Boi.