Where They At?
Alison Fensterstock and Aubrey Edwards’ Where They At archive is now available online. It’s a pretty impressive archive of New Orleans bounce and rap music featuring photos, ephemera and excerpts of interviews with the likes of DJ Jimi, Mia X, Mannie Fresh and more (hopefully the full text will be available in some form in the future?) I haven’t gotten too too deep into the site yet, but I did notice this interesting point brought up by one time Young Money and Psychoward DJ Raj Smoov:
Even still now, I don’t think hip-hop and rap are too widely accepted as… I think it’s still looked down upon. Even within the city, jazz music and brass band music – and there is a lot of culture – New Orleans has its own hip-hop. It has its own history of it, but people don’t really look or pay too much attention to that because it’s not, I guess, traditional. Right now jazz is what everybody knows New Orleans for being for. But back in the day when jazz first started, it was looked down upon by its predecessors. We’re kind of going through that same cycle now. I think there eventually will be a point where all the people that grew up on hip-hop that are my age, once they start getting in positions of power – they are handing out the grants and they are doing the stories and memorials and they have the power to do different things – you’ll see a lot more happening with hip hop because that is our music. That will be the traditional music at some point.
Raj’s comments immediately brought to mind the most visible representation of New Orleans music today – David Simon’s HBO series Treme. Though not entirely unexpected, it’s been disappointing to see how New Orleans bounce and hip hop has been almost entirely unacknowledged on the show so far. Apart from a brief placement of two post-No Limit Mystikal cuts and a few verses of screen time by an (as far as a I can tell) unknown female rapper named Baby J the characters and song selections have been more Eddie Bo than “Eddie Bow.” With Simon & co. having so thoroughly addressed the marginalized communities in Baltimore with The Wire I had hoped that they’d do the same for less publicized/canonized New Orleans musicians (especially on a show that’s ostensibly about under-publicized New Orleans music). But it doesn’t seem like they intend to, or at least not this season.
Yes, the Jazz legacy of New Orleans is awe inspiring, but the city’s largest recent footprint on popular music has come directly from its hip hop corners. Still so much of this sprawling and influential scene remains undocumented, and certainly underrepresented in the national image of the city’s musical legacy. (Perhaps somewhat strategically? I can’t imagine a bunch of suck a n***a dick for a pork chop chants and uncouth transvestites would do much to draw in the tourist dollars.) Sure the Sissy side of the fence has gotten a little bit of a buzz in the media as of late, partially because of the novelty factor and partially because it plays into the hack gender studies theories of many reporters,* but we are talking about almost twenty five years of recorded music here, with or without cross dressing. Fortunately projects like Where They At and the excellent Ya Heard Me documentary exist to pick up that slack, but it seems like it’s about time those stories are weaved into the larger narrative of New Orleans music. It seems like an all too obvious extension to the story, given the obvious rhythmic, thematic and instrumental ties Bounce shares with the city’s more revered strains of music as well as its direct lineage to long standing NO musical icons like Bobby Marchan.**
I’m well aware that even bringing all this up makes me sound more than a little bit like Steve Zahn’s elitist music nerd protagonist from Treme.*** But whatever, if they had written that character right he’d be the one ranting about the underrepresentation of bounce and, I dunno, hanging out with Jubilee at a block party or something instead of playing really obvious mainstream Mystikal records to prove how down he is. ****
Related: Bounce For Relief Vols. 1 & 2
* AT LAST TEH GHEYS HAV TEH RAPPS! THIS IS SUCH AN UNEXPECTED CONTRAST! A REALLY STRIKING COMMENT ON SOCIETY!
** Take note, my Sissy chasers in the media: Marchan was also into drag and I ain’t talking Triggerman.
*** Except I’ve never even been to New Orleans.
**** A real obsessive would have at least reached back for “Neva Gonna Bounce,” no? I demand nothing less than authenticity in the representation of authenticity obsessed music nerds. And while I’m making that list, I also demand a reprint of TT Tucker’s “Wha Dey At?” T-Shirt.
Tumblin' Erb
April 28th, 2010 at 12:32 am
I think mainstream outlets and white people with degrees are just beginning to see legitimacy in New York rap, so its going to take a few more years before any sort of southern form of the music even begins to be taken remotely serious by older music historians or whatever stupid term you want to give them.
April 28th, 2010 at 1:43 am
I think it’s more than just rap, music of all kinds tends to get ignored in and outside of New Orleans if it’s not Kermit Ruffins/Marsalis family-style jazz. Rebirth is still probably the best-known brass band outside of N.O. even though there are a lot of bands in the city doing semi-interesting things with it. It might be more pronounced with bounce music (which, despite living in New Orleans for a few years I don’t know much about), but certainly other genres also are left out when discussing the city’s musical identity.
April 28th, 2010 at 5:06 am
that site is pretty great, thnx
April 28th, 2010 at 9:06 am
Couldn’t agree more. New Orleans is revered as a musical city, but musicians who don’t fit the mold (trad jazz, brass band, R&B, funk) fall outside the cracks. This was the case with bebop and modern jazz musicians like the AFO Executives starting in the 50s and again with hip-hop now. There was a a decent NY Times article by Kalefa Sanneh about this right after Katrina (“Gangsta Gumbo”). And I think Allison, Ned Sublette, and a few others are helping to open up people’s minds to hip-hop as a form of local music.
April 28th, 2010 at 10:54 am
I just got back, probably like a dozen trips over the last 8 years. Juvenile Mannie Fresh and Drake all have prominent slots at Jazz Fest. (Juvie and Fresh are this coming weekend, your boy Drake had the biggest crowd of the Fest Saturday night, shutting down the main stage) Another friend of yours, B.O.B., played a packed house at Parish (one of the city’s biggest venues) next to the House of Blues Sunday night and it was a good show. With all do respect I call shenanigans. Brass certainly has it’s rightful place in New Orleans, but from my experience New Orleans is very much a Hip Hop city. I understand you’re referring to the perception, and maybe its outsider rep is Jazz heavy but in the city you wouldn’t know that or care.
April 28th, 2010 at 11:02 am
Right, which is why I was very specific to discuss the outsider perception/marketing of the city’s music. Nobody is debating the popularity or support of hip hop within the city. What you are saying only supports my point.
April 28th, 2010 at 11:11 am
Raj kind of suggests otherwise in that quote but I understood what you you’re saying. On a personal note, as I’m sure you’re aware, you should go.
April 28th, 2010 at 12:48 pm
“I think mainstream outlets and white people with degrees are just beginning to see legitimacy in New York rap…”
Where did you spend the past decade?
April 28th, 2010 at 12:49 pm
“The Wire” also really struggled with hip-hop. I remember a particularly cringe-worthy scene in Season 2 that was tracked to Mr. Life (sp?).
April 28th, 2010 at 1:41 pm
I wasn’t suggesting otherwise. Hip-Hop and Bounce is alive and well in the city. Concerts and parties go on all the time. I was speaking on the institutionalized acceptance of our music. It doesn’t get the media and art community attention like “traditional” New Orleans music does. There have been multiple exhibits on Jazz artists and history and the rich culture centered around it. But the Where They At exhibit is the first one I’ve seen that took a real academic route in documenting the story and culture around our music after almost 20 years. People don’t hand out grants and residencies to hip-hop/bounce artists cause they still look at us like what we’re doing stuff that aint important or on the same level as jazz and brass. One day we’ll be in control though and just like jazz is their music, hip-hop is ours. It might eventually be just be called The New Orleans MUSIC and Heritage Festival. lol
April 28th, 2010 at 1:50 pm
Hey – glad you liked the site. I’m trying to figure out the best way to make longer text from my interviews available up there, maybe just linking pdfs… (although if I post real, full transcripts you will all be able to laugh at DJ Jimi yelling at me and such things. ) We also haven’t added our full Bobby Marchan tribute and full descriptions of a lot of the stuff (mostly because I’m slammed covering Jazz Fest.) So keep checking back.
I agree that on Treme, Davis McAlary’s character would probably have been bumping some UNLV on the cassette he bought at Odyssey in 7th grade or some such. But interestingly, I just interviewed David Simon for a story and have been emailing with Blake Leyh, the music supervisor. A lot of the reason why they haven’t yet included some of the best-loved old-school NO rap is an inability to figure out who to license it from. I can relate. Tracking down a lot of people from small labels has been really hard for the WTA project, and that’s with us already having phone numbers on a dozen of their old buddies or labelmates.
Simon did tell me that Weebie’s “Fuck Katrina” will be playing on a car stereo in episode 3, and some Juvenile is coming (likely Reality Check, since it was #1 in 12/06). Also, Katey Red is in episode 10.
PS we do, indeed, have an original Wha Dey At shirt in the exhibit and I bet we should talk to its owner – DJ Irv’s sister Loren – about licensing a reprint.
April 28th, 2010 at 2:25 pm
There is an exhibition of “Where They At: New Orleans Bounce and Hip Hop in Words and Pictures” at the Ogden Museum of Southern Art, 925 Camp St., New Orleans. You can see Aubrey’s photographs, read Alison’s text, check out the ephemera (ticket stubs, flyers, cassettes, etc) and listen to samples of bounce (it’s on view through Aug. 1, 2010). DJ Jubilee played the night of the opening (4/22) at the Museum. Great show! There will be more bounce shows at the Museum during Ogden After Hours. Museum hours are: Weds.-Sun. 10-5; Thurs. 6-8 for Ogden After Hours. Admission: Louisiana residents are free on Thursdays (10-5, NOT for Ogden After Hours), with La. id. General admission for other days/hours is $10.
And yes, I am the Museum’s PR person.
April 28th, 2010 at 7:25 pm
FAUX_RILLZ has a point. The rap music coming from cars in The Wire is almost never the rap music that would actually be coming from those cars. In that first season, someone is bumping Black Star, which is ridiculous. I wouldn’t care so much if The Wire didn’t seem to work so hard to get everything else right. Furthermore, it’s usually written by George Pelicanos, whose obsession with music litters his own books to the point that characters in neighborhood bars are having completely unlikely conversations about obscure soul B-sides that their characters would never have heard of. So why not the same attention to detail when it comes to rap? It seems like Simon is working on it, according to Alison, but in the early years, it honestly seemed like they asked an intern what rap s/he liked, and that’s what ended upon the show.
April 28th, 2010 at 7:32 pm
Most Americans don’t even know 95% of New Orleans music in general,you can’t hold it against Treme for not including a fairly new form of music in the show.There have been entire rock,punk,and non traditional jazz scenes in new orleans that surely won’t get any coverage either.The Davis character is pretty real in the Fact that he is based on DJ Davis Rogan,a real dj that was the first to start the brass band show wwoz.Bounce is a New Orleans thing,but musical roots go way far back so there is a lot to cover for a city and culture that has never been rightly represented.
April 28th, 2010 at 8:22 pm
if they reprint the shirt you gotta re-do the jeans too, i still have my beeper.
April 28th, 2010 at 10:11 pm
holy shit @ this photo
April 29th, 2010 at 8:12 pm
Agreed w/ KidBristol…
I’m from B-More, and I’m sure nobody in this decade, particularly characters of THAT breed were ridin’ around bumpin’ Mr. Lif or BlackStar. There’s certain stuff that was definitely not reflective of Baltimore during the seasons, but again, it’s TV. G-Unit clothing was never as popular here as it was in The Wire. A more authentic season 3 (set in 2004) would’ve been a gang of white and black tees. For the most part, we’ve been off logos for a long time.
So maybe by season 2, they’ll get it exact, or at least closer to what the N.O. was into. Much like you, I’m rather sure “Shake Ya Ass” wasn’t poppin’ down there in 2005, but again, I doubt Simon’s finger was on the pulse of N.O. rap, so that’s what happens.
-D!
April 30th, 2010 at 10:47 am
Great analysis, Noz. Thanks for caring, as you are one of the few, believe me. My take would be…NOLA is still first and foremost a brass band city. The amount of teens who play instruments in the Crescent City today is an amazing feat. So please let’s not try to big up rap/bounce at the expense of brass bands. And honestly, while bounce is definitely something that deserves more widespread attention…it’s really still gangsta rap that is being listened to the most throughout the wards. There’s plenty of bounce that is gangsta rap at the same time. But it seems to me like too much focus is being put on the novelty of bounce, which is leaving somewhat of a skewed perspective on how ish goes down in NOLA.
May 2nd, 2010 at 4:39 pm
“Fortunately projects like Where They At and the excellent Ya Heard Me documentary exist to pick up that slack”
where can i find these noz?
May 6th, 2010 at 2:29 pm
Ya Heard Me has yet to be released, because of problems surrounding the large amount of sampling included in the bounce songs displayed in the movie.
Who knows, the producers might hit Revision # 8 before they decide to release it.
May 6th, 2010 at 3:01 pm
Oh Yeah..
This past Saturday I was out on Frenchmen St. ordering a drink from a bartender who had a lot of attitude. Turns out it was none other than DJ Irv’s sister Loren K. Phillips Fouroux. Gave “her” my props and was on my way. Thought this was funny.
I’m not sure if Baby J has anything recorded but she does perform quite a bit at Vaughn’s in the 9th ward. She reminds me of something I would have heard as a youngn’ with a voice and flow reminiscent to mid 90′s Mia X. I’ve seen her go off quite a few times but then again she has a predominantly white fan base during a predominantly white weekly… so who know?
May 15th, 2010 at 2:19 pm
TO SANKO: I apologize for any attitude you may have experienced during your initial encounter with me. My friends own that venue. So, I was lending my assistance to their establishment. I don’t work there. I’ve been busy with the “Where They At?” exhibit and my gallery showcase for the fall. Therefore, I’m usually distant from the general public. Nonetheless, thank you for the “props” and for acknowledging my brother’s work. He would be happy.
Anyone interested in the original “Wha Dey At?” t-shirt can contact me via email: lorenkf@hotmail.com. I haven’t decided who I’m going to grant the license to.
May 16th, 2010 at 2:01 pm
I am a white hip hop artist in the new orleans area. My family and known in all geners of music. My grandfarther (pa pa jack laine)is very famous in the new orleans jazz scean. I love music and all kind of music. I also play jazz too. Im really on a route to follow in my grandfarther footsteps.
I really have to agree with the statment about white people with degrees. They do look down on rap. I should know cause they treat me different. They just dont know. I meet some of the best people in my life in this rap industry. Like I say in one of my songs. Tiredof them judging a book by its cover. Open it up and read it. You might even love it.
If people would just live by this statment. The whole world would be a better place to live in. Peace love all!
June 12th, 2010 at 7:28 pm
This projects is amazing.
On the academic side, Matt Miller has done a lot of work on Southern Rap in general. See his essay, “Bounce: Rap Music and Cultural Survival in New Orleans.”
In Hip Hop in America: A Regional Guide, Edited by Mickey Hess, I wrote a long essay on bounce titled “Bouncin’ Straight out the Dirty Dirty: Community and Dance in New Orleans Rap.”
If young academics and historians waited on the old ones to get things done, nothing would get done.