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Might be different for rap, but I don’t really see anything groundbreaking about something that could have been a low budget four tet / portishead collab impersonating late 90s timbaland. sans lyrics, this probably would have made friends in college radio circuits in 2001.
Dude this beat sounds nothing like Four Tet or Portishead. Find new points of reference for your “other music.” Ain’t nobody making this kind of slap. Except maybe the guy who made the “Metroid’ score.
I realize this could be an either you get it or you don’t situation but I am simply lost. The other day when someone called you on Lil B you requested they read your actual writing. Could you possibly point me in the direction of said writing that could explain your views on the issue of this totally off kilter fuckery? I am genuinely interested in insight as to what I’m listening to.
You’re right – this song is NOT an exact replica of any of either of those artists songs. But the aesthetic is there (if you’d kindly ignore four tet’s unmatchable drums). But that’s also not really the point. I’m generally not convinced that, in terms of rap beats, taking things farther out into space necessarily implies that boundaries are being pushed. His “martian top” adlibs suggest to me that he’s not reaching out to do much more than milk preconceived notions of “futuristic.”
I’m all for enlightened discussion, but this “I don’t like it/get it, Noz explain it to me” is fucking dumb.
Though, I do “enjoy” the whole: “This sounds like Portishead/Four Tet,” “No it doesn’t,” “Ok, yeah, it doesn’t, but it has that AESTHETIC” ish…Fuck outta here.
Yeah I’m not going to “explain” a dope beat. Shit knocks and its original. I’ve listened to a lot of rap records and I’ve never heard one that sounds even remotely like this. If you have, kindly point me in the direction of that song.
Abe here is my very first post about Lil B – http://www.cocaineblunts.com/blunts/?p=2381 I don’t think this Young L song has anything to do with any of that though, Pack connection aside. This is some so so rapping over an incredible beat. (He is a producer/rapper, after all.)
I needed to find something to put me at peace with the world before I lay myself to sleep this evening. And this is it. Wheels of universe click into alignment. Peace good night.
“I’ve listened to a lot of rap records and I’ve never heard one that sounds even remotely like this. If you have, kindly point me in the direction of that song.”
“I’ve listened to a lot of rap records and I’ve never heard one that sounds even remotely like this. If you have, kindly point me in the direction of that song.”
Those beats have nothing in common. No disrespect intended. The L.E.N. beat sounds straight outta the Reason soundbank, but it’s still far and away more leftfield than the Mims beat. And the rapping is far below so so.
Beat is dope. The rhythmic patterns are pretty common, but the sound bangs.
But of course most beat patterns in HipHop since Timbo are nothing new. I’m waiting for the day when HipHop / Pop producers pick up / understand or even start to listen to Steve Colemans M-BASE-Funk / asymmetric rhythms. Coleman is a jazz innovator. The Roots had him on a couple of their songs from Do You Want More and Illadelph. The Metrics (aka Opus Akoben) from Washington D.C. made an EP with Steve Coleman in 95. But that shit sounds pretty much like that jazz rap that was usual at that time (but I like it nevertheless). But what you really should check out is this album: http://www.discogs.com/Steve-Coleman-And-Metrics-The-Way-Of-The-Cipher/release/477540
It’s recorded live and has The Metrics rhyming with Coleman’s Band on songs in odd meters and pure freestyle rapping.
What Coleman and the Metrics delivered here, live, cannot be matched on Metrics album, which are nice, but not really innovative or something. Their art of War album from ‘97 has its moments.
All jazz innovations aer picked up in pop music – 25 years later.
Steve Coleman’s innovations are from the early 90’s – it’s time now.
His music is pretty complex – but always with the dopest drummers and a somehow “danceable” beat. Great music.
Uh, so the way to move forward is to pick up on something that clearly DID NOT WORK in any way 15-20 years ago? (yes im familiar w coleman) I think the way to move forward is to not give a fuck, don´t overanalyze or be scared of being too commercial, too experimental, too whatever, just do your own shit. Sorta seems like Young L is onto something like that here.
How is this anything different than what Anti-pop or the bastard children of El-P were doing back in the day? The subject matter is a bit more tepid and its a bit more syncopated i guess.
“I think the way to move forward is to not give a fuck, don´t overanalyze or be scared of being too commercial, too experimental, too whatever, just do your own shit.”
OMG @scjoha this style is what u want? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7LGe_ZQxgw haha There was a group called Brand Nubian u should check out. 20 yrs ago. and @pot magnoliophyta It’s called Hyphy u psychopath
wrt El-P: The only element of this that really recalls that sound to me is the texture of the descending three note line, with the really severe echo on it so that the sound breaks down. This is much more staccato, while El-P tends towards bigger, trashier drums and broader washes of sound. What I really dig about this beat is how overstuffed it is while still leaving a lot of empty space.
wrt Steve Coleman: Man, fuck that. Coleman is cool and all, but innovation in hip-hop is not going to come from aping jazz cats or from arbitrarily using more complex rhythms. Remember what happened when rockers got really into COMPLEXITY for its own sake so they could be more like classical composers and jazz musicians? It’s called prog, and it fucking sucks.
[That said, Busdriver had one called "World Agape" on his last album which was extremely rhythmically complex and awesome.]
The new, in rap – or in all music, really – isn’t just a matter of incorporating new technical elements, but about drawing new emotions and reactions out of the audience. Hell, most early punk was just early-60s-style pop songwriting sped up and played loud in its technical characteristics, but that’s not what it MEANT or what it made people feel.
Young L and Lil B are succeeding in that. They’re making music that has that moment of confrontation, where you have to stop and reevaluate. For me, certainly, it doesn’t slot easily into the usual range of emotional/aesthetic reactions I have to rap. You can always fuck around and say Lil B is just talking over a Boards of Canada sample, but you’d be missing the goddamn point.
[...] taste, I share with you something joyously new from the troubled waters of Rap-land. Out to Noz at Cocaine Bluntz for the video for this, I absolutely had to have the keepable version. This [...]
@ zee:
“OMG @scjoha this style is what u want? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7LGe_ZQxgw”
Nah, I’m not talking about that. That song is from the EP I mentioned, its called a Tale from 3 Cities. The music on this EP and on the Opus Akoben albums is fairly conventional, no doubt (no asymmetric patterns and stuff). Just regular 90’s beats played by real musicians – Roots style (Black Thought has a guest verse on the EP).
Check out that album – The Way of the Cipher – and witness a capable band and 3 MC’s doin’ it live with a lot of improvised parts. Their lyrics aren’t deep or something (neither are Young L’s here), they mostly talk about kicking this style and that flow and shit, but it’s not about that – their raps are simply additional instruments like an improvising sax or trumpet. and on this particular record you can hear them rhyming over heavy funk in 5/4 and 7/4 meters. I would call it true jazz rap – not like US3 or Jazzmatazz shit, which was conventional rapping on a Blue Note sample, also far from the Roots – and even far from their own studio recordings.
This song is a perfect example of why I’ll take random kids in the hood fucking around on synthesizers over fucking internet dorks talking about what should or shouldn’t be done with production.
Obviously, Kokayi, Sub-Zero & Black Indian (the three Metrics / Opus Akoben MC’s) today don’t do anything resembling what I heard on The Way of the Cipher. But that’s what happened to most musicians working with Steve Coleman: He brought the best out of them, but rarely are they able to make really interesting music on their own .
But listen to The Way of the Cipher if you come across it. I won’t call it next level shit, but it gives an idea about what would be possible. Now imagine if these rhythms were programmed with Timbo’s sounds or young L’s – and more charismatic rapping – it probably would be.
@AK – I agree about your point that complexity for it’s own sake is useless. But again – listen to hte record I recommended – I wouldn’t call it a fail. But it’s probably too far away from hiphop.
@ Hele Fitta: What exactly didn’t work about Coleman’s music?
Soundwise? It’s like Pan Sonic on Aaltopiiri.. a couple years ago. In fact, that’s why I like it but then I could just listen to Pan Sonic and avoid stuff like “www dot fuck your bitch dot com” type dumbshit.
Now, I can’t say I’m really into this. The band is cool, but the mc’s are eh and there’s this disconnect between them and the band – it’s like the band is all, “We’re doing our thing over here!” and the rappers respond, “Okay, we’ll be over here rapping.”
They both had shit taste in rappers- you can hear the hand gestures. CL Smooth and the Roots aside, Osby and Coleman have taste in rappers like Tiger Woods has taste in white girls. Banned in New York was my theme music for a year or two straight though.
(Of course, who you really need to be checking for is Steve Lehman. Dood transcribed Haiku D’Etat and the Genius. But that’s some OTHER shit.)
(google if unfamiliar with: freestyle fellowship horace tapscott park bench people jose james)
Finally, prog rock didn’t suck because it was complicated. It sucked because it sucked, buddy. Time Signature/chord change ADD doesn’t make for compelling music*pause* Bleep blorp bloop ickyfickyickyfickyicky bleeple blorp blap, however, makes Martian slap. Or metroid slap. The invariant here is the slap.
@AK: thanks for the link! Well, I think on “Night Breed” MC’s and band interact quite nicely – partly. The “toasting” part is rather meh, but the kind of collective improvisation starting at 11:30 is nice. and hte beat is in 5/4 meter.
@Exposed Masonry: Sure, there are more charismatic rappers and it was obviously just a one time experiment, which nobody else picked up again – as far as I know. Better shit would have been possible if equally competent musicians and rappers explored that kind of stuff. And of course shit should never sound like prog rock.
Let’s see how far Young L can take the Martian slap. He could lap a little harder (no S&M). I’m curious.
this beat is not very good. its like the el-p beat for perceptionists blo which was basically the result of him listening to grime but still a 100 times better than this. this is unnecessarily heavy handed, esp the drums. like something on ninja tune (it actually makes me think of something id hear on an aesop rock record. actually i probably have heard better than this on an AR record). sounds like a bad idm or bad glitch hop producer trying to make hip-hop. strange that you think this is good production but dismiss grime or dubstep.
@ TITCHY: I like Young L’s beat better. “Blo” has that glasspot sound as hi-hat equivalent and those gong sounds, whereas Young L’s lack of hi-hat and the halftime tempo give it much more open space.
@ Exposed Masonry: Thanks for the hint on Steve Lehman. Good music, and his cover of Livin in this World is great.
overall, this is OTM –
His “martian top” adlibs suggest to me that he’s not reaching out to do much more than milk preconceived notions of “futuristic.”
and i dont think ive read anyone dismissing dubstep as a whole, but i know noz – if just jokingly – has never really rated that stuff, even as ‘other music’.
As I said before, this really doesn’t sound like El-P. It sounds weird, and El-P is most people’s primary point of reference for weird production, but the actual style is very different. Young L is using extremely staccato elements with a lot of openly electronic percussive sounds, great deal of syncopation, manages to seem minimalist and overstuffed at the same time. Even on something comparatively stripped down like “Blo,” El-P uses trashier drums, more sustained sounds, and a texture more in line with sampling.
Also, The Perceptionists album is fucking horrible.
Actually Young L’s rap fits the beat. It adds to that open space feeling. On a certain level the whole package really works. It’s not what I would listen to whole day, but as an example of working “minimalism” it’s kinda nice. Though I would love to hear a remix with a rapper who brings more density as a contrast, Twista, or omebody. Maybe one of young L’s buddies is a capable double time rhymer?
I appreciate both kinds of music – complex and minimalist / reduced. Steve Coleman’s music manages to be complex while sounding (relatively) simple.
Gucci Mane sometimes manages the same.
my tastes must be way out of wack with hip hop fans these days cos this track just sounds datedo. maybe you guys havent been listening to any non hip hop since the late 90s.
What else does it sound like? The Neptunes a bit sonically, but the logic is different. The parallels I can see would probably be with dubstep (a bit) and with some things I’ve heard cropping up in dance songs and remixes over the last several years. That’s probably a reasonable thing to say – the percussion draws more heavily from electronic dance genres for the range of sounds, but the composition is certainly nothing dance-oriented.
Right I can hear the textural similarities between this and dubstep (and, to a lesser extent El-P) but L is doing really unique things in terms of composition here. I admittedly haven’t heard every dubstep song ever, but from what I have it’s always sounded more cluttered and spastic. Same with El and Anti Pop.
imho. i also dont really get much from it personally. sounds like it could be off a track from that ATL -> cartoon network comp tbh, except i liked some of those more than this
“The new, in rap – or in all music, really – isn’t just a matter of incorporating new technical elements, but about drawing new emotions and reactions out of the audience. Hell, most early punk was just early-60s-style pop songwriting sped up and played loud in its technical characteristics, but that’s not what it MEANT or what it made people feel.”
“The new, in rap – or in all music, really – isn’t just a matter of incorporating new technical elements, but about drawing new emotions and reactions out of the audience. Hell, most early punk was just early-60s-style pop songwriting sped up and played loud in its technical characteristics, but that’s not what it MEANT or what it made people feel.”
I call bullshit- This business about priding ourselves on emotional content as opposed to indulging in technical noodling is just another incarnation of thumbs-hooked-in-the-suspenders, I’m-no-fancy-harvard-educated-lawyer-suh-but-I-do-know-right-and-wrong hucksterism. It’s saying, how the music is made doesn’t matter, the emotional content and meaning do, to which I say, wait a second, you think the musicality itself is devoid of emotional content and meaning? Are you sure you’re making music at all then?
Well, I agree with goSteweyGriffin: Of course it’s the change in technical elements that creates the new in music. HipHop only exists because of a new way in using turntables and new technology like drum machines, back in the 70’s and 80’s Bebop was a whole new way of using a drum set and a rhythmic revolution. Hendrix revolutionized the use of electric intruments, not only the guitar, but studio technology as well. (Okay, these are two different kinds of technical elements: “Hardware”, i.e. new instruments, new technology, and “software”, i.e. a new to play and use instruments and technology.)
But sure, in music that relies on singers and lyrics, singers and lyrics have an equally important role. Now I don’t know what “new emotions” are, but I would agree that new lyrical content seems to be, for most people, more important than “technical” aspects: New topics ,revolutionary attitude of the lead singers of course are central in establishing a “new music” and making it a new youth culture. Both, punk and hiphop were revolutionary contentwise – hiphop even had various revolutionary changes, hell, each important group/MC had its own revolution – Run DMC, talking about Sucker MCs and being rock stars, LL Cool J, the “fly guy” Public, the black revolutionists, Eric B & Rakim, De La Soul, X-Clan, 2 Live Crew, Ice-T, NWA – but actually, each of them brought a gtechnical, sonic revolution and a revolution in lyrical content. It’s amazing how much revolution in one single subculture there was, probably uniqiue in music history.
But today in hip hop, I think the “new” doesn’t come from that “software” side, from new lyrical content. Its more likely coming from new technical elements, new beats. and its coming slower.
gosteweygriffen – Technical elements are obviously of significance, but their weight is dependent on context. Saying that something is not original because of partial technical relations to something else – say, the claims that Young L isn’t being original because he’s using sounds that recall dubstep or Def Jux, or saying that The Ramones are “just” playing 60s pop too loud – are fallacious. That would assume that a given technical element is not only influential but dominant, and that its context and other elements of composition are swallowed up by it.
A pre-existing musical technique or element that is placed into a new context can have an entirely different meaning, aesthetic function, and impact on the audience. Isn’t hip-hop up to its neck in that very principle? That’s how sampling works – the isolation and recontextualization of a single element creates a new aesthetic meaning.
Also, there HAS been a revolution in lyrical forms in the last few years, I’d say – Lil Wayne’s recent influence has been pretty massive. Hell, there are even new things happening in this video. Young L: “Real shit, I’m that nigger.” The inflection he uses – sparse lyrics, this weird sneer up in the nose and throat – only other place I’ve heard that is Lil B, and it seems like some sort of weird offspring of Weezy’s gurgles.
[...] L, generated a lot of buzz and discussion when CB featured this track with this one statement: “Rap production is anything but stagnant.” A ridiculous amount of people had a lot to say, but I agree that the internet and technology [...]
he killed this SHIT i dont see how u guys talk about the lyrics .>> HE WEnT IT in …. “UP ALL NITE like a 711 … BALL hard Like im 7′11….WIndmills and my wrist stupid WIndchill… Wipe me down Like u live on my windsheild” THT SHIT WAS FUCKIN BANanas I AGREE LIL B is better >> BUTTT YOUNG L is gonna be the next pharell watch .. TIll he start get in his late twenty he is gonna emerge outta no where >> PRODUCING EVERYBODy SHIT
February 18th, 2010 at 8:33 pm
terrible lyrics
February 18th, 2010 at 8:43 pm
Might be different for rap, but I don’t really see anything groundbreaking about something that could have been a low budget four tet / portishead collab impersonating late 90s timbaland. sans lyrics, this probably would have made friends in college radio circuits in 2001.
February 18th, 2010 at 8:47 pm
Dude this beat sounds nothing like Four Tet or Portishead. Find new points of reference for your “other music.” Ain’t nobody making this kind of slap. Except maybe the guy who made the “Metroid’ score.
February 18th, 2010 at 9:05 pm
It’s amazing that the cats who dropped “Vans” turn out to be an absolute goldmine of weird, weird stuff.
February 18th, 2010 at 9:09 pm
Nicki Minaj, you are needed on this beat.
February 18th, 2010 at 9:28 pm
“It’s amazing that the cats who dropped “Vans” turn out to be an absolute goldmine of weird, weird stuff.”
But “Vans” is weird, weird stuff! People are crazy.
February 18th, 2010 at 9:35 pm
If Lil B’s career encourages the other Pack guys and young Bay rappers to veer far to the left shit could get real interesting..
February 18th, 2010 at 9:50 pm
I realize this could be an either you get it or you don’t situation but I am simply lost. The other day when someone called you on Lil B you requested they read your actual writing. Could you possibly point me in the direction of said writing that could explain your views on the issue of this totally off kilter fuckery? I am genuinely interested in insight as to what I’m listening to.
February 18th, 2010 at 11:17 pm
this shit is BONKERS!!
February 18th, 2010 at 11:20 pm
@ noz
You’re right – this song is NOT an exact replica of any of either of those artists songs. But the aesthetic is there (if you’d kindly ignore four tet’s unmatchable drums). But that’s also not really the point. I’m generally not convinced that, in terms of rap beats, taking things farther out into space necessarily implies that boundaries are being pushed. His “martian top” adlibs suggest to me that he’s not reaching out to do much more than milk preconceived notions of “futuristic.”
February 18th, 2010 at 11:47 pm
shit is tight… I’m not exactly getting how it’s that off or left-field though
February 19th, 2010 at 12:57 am
I’m all for enlightened discussion, but this “I don’t like it/get it, Noz explain it to me” is fucking dumb.
Though, I do “enjoy” the whole: “This sounds like Portishead/Four Tet,” “No it doesn’t,” “Ok, yeah, it doesn’t, but it has that AESTHETIC” ish…Fuck outta here.
This beat slaps, IMO.
February 19th, 2010 at 1:06 am
Yeah I’m not going to “explain” a dope beat. Shit knocks and its original. I’ve listened to a lot of rap records and I’ve never heard one that sounds even remotely like this. If you have, kindly point me in the direction of that song.
Abe here is my very first post about Lil B – http://www.cocaineblunts.com/blunts/?p=2381 I don’t think this Young L song has anything to do with any of that though, Pack connection aside. This is some so so rapping over an incredible beat. (He is a producer/rapper, after all.)
February 19th, 2010 at 1:27 am
let the record show…i like this.
does L have any instrumental albums or cuts avail? outside of the Pack vinyl I mean (somebody do my record digging for me please)
February 19th, 2010 at 1:32 am
I needed to find something to put me at peace with the world before I lay myself to sleep this evening. And this is it. Wheels of universe click into alignment. Peace good night.
February 19th, 2010 at 1:45 am
“I’ve listened to a lot of rap records and I’ve never heard one that sounds even remotely like this. If you have, kindly point me in the direction of that song.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9szo2SoMJUY
No?
February 19th, 2010 at 2:33 am
“I’ve listened to a lot of rap records and I’ve never heard one that sounds even remotely like this. If you have, kindly point me in the direction of that song.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrpnEatIrGQ
No?
February 19th, 2010 at 2:38 am
Those beats have nothing in common. No disrespect intended. The L.E.N. beat sounds straight outta the Reason soundbank, but it’s still far and away more leftfield than the Mims beat. And the rapping is far below so so.
February 19th, 2010 at 4:58 am
perhaps im making myself look dum, but
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fAeTePGdGk
?
February 19th, 2010 at 5:48 am
God, i love the Bay.
February 19th, 2010 at 6:00 am
Love this shit! Although I think I heard stuff that sounds REMOTELY like this before, ha ha … The less hectic/grimey early Wiley stuff comes to mind:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAbhwW53jE4.
February 19th, 2010 at 6:01 am
WTF? How could you not like this song? Beat is bananas. I think Young L is kinda killing it too.
Who’s got an mp3izzle?
-e
February 19th, 2010 at 6:03 am
Yeah, I need an mp3 too. Tried hitting up http://www.fuckyobitch.com and http://www.runyobitch.com/youngl, but no luck.
February 19th, 2010 at 6:13 am
It’s on digital dripped. http://hulkshare.com/wx058ry4zy89
February 19th, 2010 at 9:00 am
Young L looks a bit lost in this doing some artificial moves with an even more artificial rap flow… The beat is bigger than him.
February 19th, 2010 at 9:20 am
Lil B needs to stop with the half-ass ambient he’s making and needs to reconnect with this guy.
February 19th, 2010 at 9:23 am
Beat is dope. The rhythmic patterns are pretty common, but the sound bangs.
But of course most beat patterns in HipHop since Timbo are nothing new. I’m waiting for the day when HipHop / Pop producers pick up / understand or even start to listen to Steve Colemans M-BASE-Funk / asymmetric rhythms. Coleman is a jazz innovator. The Roots had him on a couple of their songs from Do You Want More and Illadelph. The Metrics (aka Opus Akoben) from Washington D.C. made an EP with Steve Coleman in 95. But that shit sounds pretty much like that jazz rap that was usual at that time (but I like it nevertheless). But what you really should check out is this album:
http://www.discogs.com/Steve-Coleman-And-Metrics-The-Way-Of-The-Cipher/release/477540
It’s recorded live and has The Metrics rhyming with Coleman’s Band on songs in odd meters and pure freestyle rapping.
What Coleman and the Metrics delivered here, live, cannot be matched on Metrics album, which are nice, but not really innovative or something. Their art of War album from ‘97 has its moments.
All jazz innovations aer picked up in pop music – 25 years later.
Steve Coleman’s innovations are from the early 90’s – it’s time now.
His music is pretty complex – but always with the dopest drummers and a somehow “danceable” beat. Great music.
February 19th, 2010 at 9:30 am
Uh, so the way to move forward is to pick up on something that clearly DID NOT WORK in any way 15-20 years ago? (yes im familiar w coleman) I think the way to move forward is to not give a fuck, don´t overanalyze or be scared of being too commercial, too experimental, too whatever, just do your own shit. Sorta seems like Young L is onto something like that here.
February 19th, 2010 at 10:38 am
How is this anything different than what Anti-pop or the bastard children of El-P were doing back in the day? The subject matter is a bit more tepid and its a bit more syncopated i guess.
February 19th, 2010 at 10:48 am
“I think the way to move forward is to not give a fuck, don´t overanalyze or be scared of being too commercial, too experimental, too whatever, just do your own shit.”
This is what I read comments sections for.
February 19th, 2010 at 11:19 am
uh…can we talk about the video for a second? it’s one of the nicest low budget rap videos i’ve seen in the last 2 years.
February 19th, 2010 at 1:36 pm
OMG @scjoha this style is what u want? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7LGe_ZQxgw haha There was a group called Brand Nubian u should check out. 20 yrs ago. and @pot magnoliophyta It’s called Hyphy u psychopath
February 19th, 2010 at 3:38 pm
wrt El-P: The only element of this that really recalls that sound to me is the texture of the descending three note line, with the really severe echo on it so that the sound breaks down. This is much more staccato, while El-P tends towards bigger, trashier drums and broader washes of sound. What I really dig about this beat is how overstuffed it is while still leaving a lot of empty space.
wrt Steve Coleman: Man, fuck that. Coleman is cool and all, but innovation in hip-hop is not going to come from aping jazz cats or from arbitrarily using more complex rhythms. Remember what happened when rockers got really into COMPLEXITY for its own sake so they could be more like classical composers and jazz musicians? It’s called prog, and it fucking sucks.
[That said, Busdriver had one called "World Agape" on his last album which was extremely rhythmically complex and awesome.]
The new, in rap – or in all music, really – isn’t just a matter of incorporating new technical elements, but about drawing new emotions and reactions out of the audience. Hell, most early punk was just early-60s-style pop songwriting sped up and played loud in its technical characteristics, but that’s not what it MEANT or what it made people feel.
Young L and Lil B are succeeding in that. They’re making music that has that moment of confrontation, where you have to stop and reevaluate. For me, certainly, it doesn’t slot easily into the usual range of emotional/aesthetic reactions I have to rap. You can always fuck around and say Lil B is just talking over a Boards of Canada sample, but you’d be missing the goddamn point.
February 19th, 2010 at 3:39 pm
Man I should make my own blog so I don’t keep posting long-ass comments.
February 19th, 2010 at 3:56 pm
“You can always fuck around and say Lil B is just talking over a Boards of Canada sample, but you’d be missing the goddamn point.”
Right. In the same way Sugar Hill Gang was just talking over “Good Times.”
February 19th, 2010 at 3:57 pm
DUDE DILLA ALREADY DID THIS WITH THAT RAYMOND SCOTT SAMPLE YOUKNOWHUMSAYIN
February 19th, 2010 at 4:17 pm
[...] taste, I share with you something joyously new from the troubled waters of Rap-land. Out to Noz at Cocaine Bluntz for the video for this, I absolutely had to have the keepable version. This [...]
February 19th, 2010 at 4:42 pm
wow good call noz, definitely sounds like something from metroid prime
February 19th, 2010 at 4:51 pm
@ zee:
“OMG @scjoha this style is what u want? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7LGe_ZQxgw”
Nah, I’m not talking about that. That song is from the EP I mentioned, its called a Tale from 3 Cities. The music on this EP and on the Opus Akoben albums is fairly conventional, no doubt (no asymmetric patterns and stuff). Just regular 90’s beats played by real musicians – Roots style (Black Thought has a guest verse on the EP).
Check out that album – The Way of the Cipher – and witness a capable band and 3 MC’s doin’ it live with a lot of improvised parts. Their lyrics aren’t deep or something (neither are Young L’s here), they mostly talk about kicking this style and that flow and shit, but it’s not about that – their raps are simply additional instruments like an improvising sax or trumpet. and on this particular record you can hear them rhyming over heavy funk in 5/4 and 7/4 meters. I would call it true jazz rap – not like US3 or Jazzmatazz shit, which was conventional rapping on a Blue Note sample, also far from the Roots – and even far from their own studio recordings.
February 19th, 2010 at 4:51 pm
This song is a perfect example of why I’ll take random kids in the hood fucking around on synthesizers over fucking internet dorks talking about what should or shouldn’t be done with production.
This is awesome and y’all arent. STFU!
-e
February 19th, 2010 at 5:44 pm
Opus Akoben in China – hilarious!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmrGSSNPZQ8
Unfortunately there are no videos showing what I mean. all I found was shit like that:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmD3tsc1Ro4
or that:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffu-BQcv3eA ame song, live version)
Obviously, Kokayi, Sub-Zero & Black Indian (the three Metrics / Opus Akoben MC’s) today don’t do anything resembling what I heard on The Way of the Cipher. But that’s what happened to most musicians working with Steve Coleman: He brought the best out of them, but rarely are they able to make really interesting music on their own .
But listen to The Way of the Cipher if you come across it. I won’t call it next level shit, but it gives an idea about what would be possible. Now imagine if these rhythms were programmed with Timbo’s sounds or young L’s – and more charismatic rapping – it probably would be.
@AK – I agree about your point that complexity for it’s own sake is useless. But again – listen to hte record I recommended – I wouldn’t call it a fail. But it’s probably too far away from hiphop.
@ Hele Fitta: What exactly didn’t work about Coleman’s music?
February 19th, 2010 at 5:57 pm
Reading this jazz-rap drivel is making my eyes bleed
February 19th, 2010 at 6:14 pm
Bleed. That’s gangsta.
February 19th, 2010 at 6:36 pm
Soundwise? It’s like Pan Sonic on Aaltopiiri.. a couple years ago. In fact, that’s why I like it but then I could just listen to Pan Sonic and avoid stuff like “www dot fuck your bitch dot com” type dumbshit.
February 19th, 2010 at 8:43 pm
It sounds like a Kool Keith beat.
February 19th, 2010 at 8:54 pm
this is tight…to me it sounds most like an early grime beat as somebody else noted above…
February 19th, 2010 at 9:41 pm
((Found it – there are a couple tracks from The Way of the Cipher halfway down this page: http://www.m-base.org/sounds.html ))
Now, I can’t say I’m really into this. The band is cool, but the mc’s are eh and there’s this disconnect between them and the band – it’s like the band is all, “We’re doing our thing over here!” and the rappers respond, “Okay, we’ll be over here rapping.”
February 20th, 2010 at 2:41 am
They both had shit taste in rappers- you can hear the hand gestures. CL Smooth and the Roots aside, Osby and Coleman have taste in rappers like Tiger Woods has taste in white girls. Banned in New York was my theme music for a year or two straight though.
(Of course, who you really need to be checking for is Steve Lehman. Dood transcribed Haiku D’Etat and the Genius. But that’s some OTHER shit.)
(google if unfamiliar with: freestyle fellowship horace tapscott park bench people jose james)
Finally, prog rock didn’t suck because it was complicated. It sucked because it sucked, buddy. Time Signature/chord change ADD doesn’t make for compelling music*pause* Bleep blorp bloop ickyfickyickyfickyicky bleeple blorp blap, however, makes Martian slap. Or metroid slap. The invariant here is the slap.
February 20th, 2010 at 4:14 am
@AK: thanks for the link! Well, I think on “Night Breed” MC’s and band interact quite nicely – partly. The “toasting” part is rather meh, but the kind of collective improvisation starting at 11:30 is nice. and hte beat is in 5/4 meter.
@Exposed Masonry: Sure, there are more charismatic rappers and it was obviously just a one time experiment, which nobody else picked up again – as far as I know. Better shit would have been possible if equally competent musicians and rappers explored that kind of stuff. And of course shit should never sound like prog rock.
Let’s see how far Young L can take the Martian slap. He could lap a little harder (no S&M). I’m curious.
February 20th, 2010 at 4:18 am
Sorry for the typos. The “S” on my keyboard is kinda fucked up.
February 20th, 2010 at 9:34 am
this beat is not very good. its like the el-p beat for perceptionists blo which was basically the result of him listening to grime but still a 100 times better than this. this is unnecessarily heavy handed, esp the drums. like something on ninja tune (it actually makes me think of something id hear on an aesop rock record. actually i probably have heard better than this on an AR record). sounds like a bad idm or bad glitch hop producer trying to make hip-hop. strange that you think this is good production but dismiss grime or dubstep.
February 20th, 2010 at 9:36 am
heres a link to blo if you dont know it –
http://itunes.apple.com/us/album/black-dialogue/id317265087#
im oddly dissapointed that you rate this track so highly.
February 20th, 2010 at 10:13 am
I blame Kanye for making all these producers wanna rap too.
Young L as a producer is indeed “one of the most interesting on the planet” or however you put it on formspring noz.
February 20th, 2010 at 10:18 am
When has anyone here dismissed dubstep as an entire genre?
February 20th, 2010 at 10:40 am
@ TITCHY: I like Young L’s beat better. “Blo” has that glasspot sound as hi-hat equivalent and those gong sounds, whereas Young L’s lack of hi-hat and the halftime tempo give it much more open space.
@ Exposed Masonry: Thanks for the hint on Steve Lehman. Good music, and his cover of Livin in this World is great.
February 20th, 2010 at 2:36 pm
these lyrics are totally awful. he needs to go to school.
February 20th, 2010 at 4:12 pm
overall, this is OTM –
His “martian top” adlibs suggest to me that he’s not reaching out to do much more than milk preconceived notions of “futuristic.”
February 20th, 2010 at 4:12 pm
and i dont think ive read anyone dismissing dubstep as a whole, but i know noz – if just jokingly – has never really rated that stuff, even as ‘other music’.
February 20th, 2010 at 4:57 pm
The Perceptionists? No. Just no.
As I said before, this really doesn’t sound like El-P. It sounds weird, and El-P is most people’s primary point of reference for weird production, but the actual style is very different. Young L is using extremely staccato elements with a lot of openly electronic percussive sounds, great deal of syncopation, manages to seem minimalist and overstuffed at the same time. Even on something comparatively stripped down like “Blo,” El-P uses trashier drums, more sustained sounds, and a texture more in line with sampling.
Also, The Perceptionists album is fucking horrible.
February 20th, 2010 at 4:58 pm
Seriously, I’m pretty sure it’s the worst work from everyone involved in it.
February 21st, 2010 at 4:18 am
Actually Young L’s rap fits the beat. It adds to that open space feeling. On a certain level the whole package really works. It’s not what I would listen to whole day, but as an example of working “minimalism” it’s kinda nice. Though I would love to hear a remix with a rapper who brings more density as a contrast, Twista, or omebody. Maybe one of young L’s buddies is a capable double time rhymer?
I appreciate both kinds of music – complex and minimalist / reduced. Steve Coleman’s music manages to be complex while sounding (relatively) simple.
Gucci Mane sometimes manages the same.
February 21st, 2010 at 5:54 am
my tastes must be way out of wack with hip hop fans these days cos this track just sounds datedo. maybe you guys havent been listening to any non hip hop since the late 90s.
February 21st, 2010 at 6:06 am
*dated
February 21st, 2010 at 7:31 am
What else does it sound like? The Neptunes a bit sonically, but the logic is different. The parallels I can see would probably be with dubstep (a bit) and with some things I’ve heard cropping up in dance songs and remixes over the last several years. That’s probably a reasonable thing to say – the percussion draws more heavily from electronic dance genres for the range of sounds, but the composition is certainly nothing dance-oriented.
February 21st, 2010 at 12:08 pm
Right I can hear the textural similarities between this and dubstep (and, to a lesser extent El-P) but L is doing really unique things in terms of composition here. I admittedly haven’t heard every dubstep song ever, but from what I have it’s always sounded more cluttered and spastic. Same with El and Anti Pop.
February 21st, 2010 at 5:34 pm
this sounds a lot like dubstep
February 21st, 2010 at 5:35 pm
imho. i also dont really get much from it personally. sounds like it could be off a track from that ATL -> cartoon network comp tbh, except i liked some of those more than this
February 22nd, 2010 at 2:02 pm
“The new, in rap – or in all music, really – isn’t just a matter of incorporating new technical elements, but about drawing new emotions and reactions out of the audience. Hell, most early punk was just early-60s-style pop songwriting sped up and played loud in its technical characteristics, but that’s not what it MEANT or what it made people feel.”
AMEN
February 22nd, 2010 at 8:14 pm
“The new, in rap – or in all music, really – isn’t just a matter of incorporating new technical elements, but about drawing new emotions and reactions out of the audience. Hell, most early punk was just early-60s-style pop songwriting sped up and played loud in its technical characteristics, but that’s not what it MEANT or what it made people feel.”
I call bullshit- This business about priding ourselves on emotional content as opposed to indulging in technical noodling is just another incarnation of thumbs-hooked-in-the-suspenders, I’m-no-fancy-harvard-educated-lawyer-suh-but-I-do-know-right-and-wrong hucksterism. It’s saying, how the music is made doesn’t matter, the emotional content and meaning do, to which I say, wait a second, you think the musicality itself is devoid of emotional content and meaning? Are you sure you’re making music at all then?
February 23rd, 2010 at 2:15 am
Well, I agree with goSteweyGriffin: Of course it’s the change in technical elements that creates the new in music. HipHop only exists because of a new way in using turntables and new technology like drum machines, back in the 70’s and 80’s Bebop was a whole new way of using a drum set and a rhythmic revolution. Hendrix revolutionized the use of electric intruments, not only the guitar, but studio technology as well. (Okay, these are two different kinds of technical elements: “Hardware”, i.e. new instruments, new technology, and “software”, i.e. a new to play and use instruments and technology.)
But sure, in music that relies on singers and lyrics, singers and lyrics have an equally important role. Now I don’t know what “new emotions” are, but I would agree that new lyrical content seems to be, for most people, more important than “technical” aspects: New topics ,revolutionary attitude of the lead singers of course are central in establishing a “new music” and making it a new youth culture. Both, punk and hiphop were revolutionary contentwise – hiphop even had various revolutionary changes, hell, each important group/MC had its own revolution – Run DMC, talking about Sucker MCs and being rock stars, LL Cool J, the “fly guy” Public, the black revolutionists, Eric B & Rakim, De La Soul, X-Clan, 2 Live Crew, Ice-T, NWA – but actually, each of them brought a gtechnical, sonic revolution and a revolution in lyrical content. It’s amazing how much revolution in one single subculture there was, probably uniqiue in music history.
But today in hip hop, I think the “new” doesn’t come from that “software” side, from new lyrical content. Its more likely coming from new technical elements, new beats. and its coming slower.
February 23rd, 2010 at 6:30 am
gosteweygriffen – Technical elements are obviously of significance, but their weight is dependent on context. Saying that something is not original because of partial technical relations to something else – say, the claims that Young L isn’t being original because he’s using sounds that recall dubstep or Def Jux, or saying that The Ramones are “just” playing 60s pop too loud – are fallacious. That would assume that a given technical element is not only influential but dominant, and that its context and other elements of composition are swallowed up by it.
A pre-existing musical technique or element that is placed into a new context can have an entirely different meaning, aesthetic function, and impact on the audience. Isn’t hip-hop up to its neck in that very principle? That’s how sampling works – the isolation and recontextualization of a single element creates a new aesthetic meaning.
February 23rd, 2010 at 6:43 am
Also, there HAS been a revolution in lyrical forms in the last few years, I’d say – Lil Wayne’s recent influence has been pretty massive. Hell, there are even new things happening in this video. Young L: “Real shit, I’m that nigger.” The inflection he uses – sparse lyrics, this weird sneer up in the nose and throat – only other place I’ve heard that is Lil B, and it seems like some sort of weird offspring of Weezy’s gurgles.
February 26th, 2010 at 4:46 am
If anyone else wondered:
” whats L-E-N?
my abreviation for alien”
from his formspring
February 26th, 2010 at 11:42 am
Can I get the instrumental to this??
February 27th, 2010 at 6:53 am
P-417: I am going to die laughing.
I’m actually listening to this right now, entirely too loud. L is on some next level shit, really. This is an incredible beat.
March 1st, 2010 at 10:32 am
don’t know how next level it is, but ran across this discussion. check this stuff out on the jazz/hip-hop shit.
http://ninetyninecentdreams.com
boom
—a
March 22nd, 2010 at 8:32 pm
this dude deff. has a different swaqq . ndd im diqqin it
April 16th, 2010 at 11:57 pm
[...] L, generated a lot of buzz and discussion when CB featured this track with this one statement: “Rap production is anything but stagnant.” A ridiculous amount of people had a lot to say, but I agree that the internet and technology [...]
May 31st, 2010 at 8:41 am
he killed this SHIT i dont see how u guys talk about the lyrics .>> HE WEnT IT in …. “UP ALL NITE like a 711 … BALL hard Like im 7′11….WIndmills and my wrist stupid WIndchill… Wipe me down Like u live on my windsheild” THT SHIT WAS FUCKIN BANanas I AGREE LIL B is better >> BUTTT YOUNG L is gonna be the next pharell watch .. TIll he start get in his late twenty he is gonna emerge outta no where >> PRODUCING EVERYBODy SHIT