RSSHow I Want My Sandwiches
This So Icey Ent. freestyle from BET’s The Deal has been making the rounds for the past 48 hours and I think it deserves it’s own post. Juice and Waka pretty do what they do. At this point you’re either a fan or not. (Did they blow up the Nah Right showcase last night? Is New York Alaska yet? No?)
But it’s next generation sex kitten femcee Niki Manaj who steals the show. And not in a good way. In fact it might possibly be the worst freestyle to ever run on BET. Yet I can’t stop watching it. There’s an almost Lynchian quality to the whole image, so viscerally disturbing that it’s actually beautiful. Her appearance is plasticized and she remains almost motionless apart from some jarring head motion. Her elbows are froze perfectly at 45 degree angles, her leopard print tights nearly camel toed, her eyes glazed behind too large sunglass frames. She is rapping with every accent and yet no accent at all. She is a robot mimicking mimicking high society mimicking a hoodrat in a naive attempt to show out on their myspace photo shoot. She might actually make for a brilliant conceptual artist if we were to pile on more context than makeup. But she’s definitely an awful rapper.
Related: Niki Minaj Wants More Cheese
153 Comments, Comment or Ping
MF
The ‘09 Eli Porter.
Oct 22nd, 2009
thehoustongirl
LOL she’s just a LOOK AT ME “rapper”. NO SUBSTANCE. Shit at least Kim and Foxy can rap. Hell even TRINA had a little something.
This broad here? pffft
Kim = Biggie
Foxy = Jay-Z
Trina = Trick Daddy (Slip & Slide)
Niki Manaj = Lil Wayne *holds in laughter*
Oh shit! What Niki and Drake gone do since Wayne is on his way to the slammer?!!! Will their so called “careers” be stalled? WHAT ABOUT YOUNG MONIES?! LMAO
***the one female rapper I always cut for is Boss from the 90s. I KNOW yall nigga remember that track “Deeper”. THE SHIT
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuLHIP_hO3I
-thehoustongirl
Oct 22nd, 2009
Sean
Really weird you’re making such a strong case against Nicki, but using the “either you’re down or you’re not” defense for OJ. I like both a lot, but what’s the difference? It’s ultimately personality rap.
Oct 22nd, 2009
noz
For the record, I am explicitly not down with OJ being anything but a hypeman. He’s not a good rapper, but he’s not as disturbingly awful as Niki.
Oct 22nd, 2009
thehoustongirl
My motto is “Don’t half ass RAP”
Now maybe she is on some “Hip POP” like the majority of these rappers are in 2009. Damn near ‘bubblegum rap’ but try to disguise it as decent.
There ARE some good bubblegum rap (not my taste) but you can always tell when a muthafucka tries WAY TOO HARD.
Exibit A.
Take your stank animal leggings and move on…
FLASH IN THE PAN if you ask me.
Wayne think you can get some big booty (questioning the ass any damn way) with some yaki wig and think we supposed to fawn over her? *looks around* nigga gtfo! and why these chicks have to be so ’sexualized’? just put out some good music or just suck the others rappers dick to get on, yeen know?
Nigga you don’t see AMBER ROSE trying to rap in this bitch! Know your place. Stay in your lane.
I know yall like ‘damn you hating” but I’m sick of my ears being assaulted all in the name of this so called “rap”. NO, I don’t want to gravitate to what’s popular or new. If a person is REAL with theirs and just be themselves, the real will always shine from the fake.
just my .002 cent. NOT saying you have to write this in stone.
-thehoustongirl
Oct 22nd, 2009
Ruestar
She’s like a train wreck, lyrically and fashionably. Yet I find her “verse” more listenable than anything those other clowns mumble out (though I guess Waka Flocka (really, Waka Flocka?) speaks clearly enough).
Oct 22nd, 2009
thehoustongirl
Noz, ya boy OJ Juiceman…
http://www.rappersiknow.com/2009/10/22/oj-da-juiceman-gets-booed-at-bb-kings/
:D
Oct 22nd, 2009
ANU
kid sister’s album will be out soon.
Oct 22nd, 2009
bding7
really, Waka Flocka?
I honestly think that’s a fantastic name, though I am not sold on his rapping yet.
Also, how is “personality rap” different from regular “rapping rapps?”
Oct 22nd, 2009
Brian "B.Dot" Miller
*dead…check please!*
Oct 22nd, 2009
TSF
LOL, I saw this yesterday. Yes, she’s horrible, but didn’t we know that already? Her most memorable line on Da Drought 3 was “You be Harry Potter/ I’ll be Hermione.” What kills me here is why the duck is she trying to do an English accent? I think Eli could take her in a battle.
Not feelin OJ ever without Gucci, but Waka? Fuck yeah! Peep that Salute Me or Shoot Me, lots of certified bangers!
Oct 22nd, 2009
nico
I actually think OJ is worse. The last dude is the best, but that isn’t saying shit when he’s standing next to those two… at least the female’s raps are… dare I say, abstract, in a way. Horrible yes I agree… but The juiceman just has no defining characteristics to his flow… at least that girl has sexy ass child bearing hips and a strange concept goin on
Oct 22nd, 2009
MAYNHOLUP
honessly i like Niki’s verse de bess mayn. it reminds me uv a orlando bloom or keanu reeves movie mayn im fascinated wit how bad i iz.
Oct 22nd, 2009
Shelliano
The sad part is, if Nikki just RAPPED the verse like a bitch from NY (she from Southside Jamaca spitting like that???), she would easily have the hardest verse out of three it… It was still like watching a special olympics race though– regardless of who won, they are all retarded…
Oct 22nd, 2009
DQ
i actually thought she might be improvising and new to it (how else to explain the cheese and j-j-j- placeholders?) in which case i’d give her a pass. But no, this is a recorded verse from “Getting Paid”.
Oct 22nd, 2009
emynd
I know I told you this on AIM noz, but I thought it’d vocalize it here for the sake of conversation:
I think Nikki Minaj kills this shit.
-e
Oct 22nd, 2009
nico
ok ok.. if that was a written… then fuck it… take back everything I said… you still think she kills it emynd?
Oct 22nd, 2009
DQ
Black ppl can now rap with the same disconnection from the art as white ppl in pop songs and comedy advertising. Truly a post-race society.
Oct 22nd, 2009
Therm
“I think Nikki Minaj kills this shit.”
Cosign. I’m surprised by Noz on this one. From a writer that’s usually accepting if not celebratory of anything that’s hot with the youngins, this is a strange exception. Although her whole presentation is totally bizzare, she’s clearly a virtuoso, and a master of the bizzare hood cartoon character persona which is completely 2009 and maybe even 2010. This shit sounds futuristic to me. If she has a work ethic anything like Lil Wayne or Gucci, you’re going to have to get used to hating on her, because she’s here to stay.
Oct 22nd, 2009
Erik
It was written:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cv1YE4Kh8rY
Oct 22nd, 2009
nico
DQ and therm… you fuckin serious?
if this was a freestyle she;d be on one… however, its not! what the FUCK! I can write down some shit write now as abstract as that.. dare me to and i just might waste my fucking time.
Oct 22nd, 2009
nico
and DQ I ask you if you serious because I am truly curious.. are you serious with that ridiculous statement or just being sarcastic?
Oct 22nd, 2009
DQ
I’m serious in saying it’s the same calibre of rap as found in white pop and annoying “funny” commercials.
Oct 22nd, 2009
nico
what the fuck is “white pop” and “annoying ‘funny’ commericals”?
what im imagining with those two phrases you just used is so fucking broad I can’t find a point to your statement.
Oct 22nd, 2009
walkmasterflex
the best part about this is oj da juiceman essentially speaking in another language before beginning his verse, and if you disagree you’re wrong
Oct 22nd, 2009
nico
i thought that too walkmaster…
i was like… I can do that!
Oct 22nd, 2009
nico
http://65.111.174.78/files/uploads/Nicki%20Minaj.jpg
is that a c*** or a c***?
Oct 22nd, 2009
Ruestar
Something tells me it’s a c***.
Oct 22nd, 2009
TrillWill
I found Nicki’s verse at least humorous. Sure, she may be trying to “out-Wayne” Wayne with the weirdness, but it was entertaining.
Oct 22nd, 2009
david
i think if she was a dude no one would be saying “worst verse ever” — btw no one here better be a Drake fan
its still a pretty goofy performance
i dont think OJ is a bad rapper — hes just really not able to carry himself for 100 guest verses a year like Gucci is … hes fallen back on cliche for like every verse at this point. but his asylum record from earlier this year had some jams on it
Oct 22nd, 2009
noz
“From a writer that’s usually accepting if not celebratory of anything that’s hot with the youngins”
Aside from your dramatic misreading of my motives, your reasoning is faulty in that it assumes that any youngins are actively checking for Niki Minaj.
Oct 22nd, 2009
david
eh shes pretty well known. most dudes ive talked to just want to sleep w her, though.
Oct 22nd, 2009
noz
Yeah I should have clarified – nobody is checking for her as a rapper. I’m well aware that she is “pretty well known,” but what she’s known for seems counter-intuitive to your endless fight for rap world women’s lib.
Oct 22nd, 2009
Therm
I work with black teenagers in Pittsburgh. They seem pretty impressed with her – or at least how crazy she it. That’s how I found out about her in the first place. And honestly, she seems to consistently hit cadences and intonation that most rappers just can’t manage. Talk shit about her funny style, but untalented rapper she is not.
Oct 22nd, 2009
EWOULDBLOCK
I can only tolerate the delivery in a Keanu Reeves way (word to MAYN) but the cheese sammiches line is… marginally clever. More than anything OJ or WF drop here.
Oct 22nd, 2009
EWOULDBLOCK
Not that she necessarily wrote the shit.
Oct 22nd, 2009
mark p.
L
O
L
Fucking hell, I’m not even sure what to think of that. I’m not even sure if I hate it, it’s just… on some other shit. The way she says “cheese” had me LOLing like a motherfucker.
Well it’s good to see that Juiceman is already losing that touch that made (some) people like him in the first place. Flocka is the CLEAR winner here, not that his verse is very good, but he has a dope ass voice, and that’s half the battle.
Oct 23rd, 2009
david
“but what she’s known for seems counter-intuitive to your endless fight for rap world women’s lib.”
kind of annoying how u try to marginalize what im saying w/ that b.s. The only shit i tend to object to is out-of-hand writing off of an entire gender’s ability to rap (oh yeah aside from the mc lyte ‘exceptions’ obv) which youve done on numerous occasions, & pointing out a double standard — shes rapping about shit dudes dont respect (& sorry but is what waka flocka hollering about anything more substantive than what nicki is rapping about, content wise?) which means she gets more shit from dudes when she drops some garbage.
also, i said thats why shes known by dudes. i worked w females this summer that like her as a rapper
Oct 23rd, 2009
brandonsoderberg
co-sign David here. It’s a wonderfully weird verse/delivery and that’s the point. There’s a precedent for this. She’s on some po-mo Cyndi Lauper shit, which is dopey and conceptual but get over it, plenty of shit enjoyed by all the hipster sexists here would fall into the “dopey and conceptual” category.
Oct 23rd, 2009
Jordan
Juiceman is the living embodiment of Boomhauer from KoTH? Anyway I think the best point is that Nikki completely steals the show. She may be trying way too hard but at least she bothers to try, y’know? Also I wonder what the reaction would be if she spit the same verse without all the crazy voices?
Oct 23rd, 2009
JO
“po-mo Cyndi Lauper”
LOL
Oct 23rd, 2009
david
ha i agree with brandon except for the modifier “wonderfully” — i think its pretty corny
Oct 23rd, 2009
emynd
Nikki Minaj’s verse really blindsided me. I haven’t heard anything from her that’s impressed me until I heard this and it has me re-evaluating her whole shtick. It’s to the point where Ima definitely hit up the hood mixtape shop today and scoop up whatever they have available by her. I think David and Brandon are on to something and I do wonder if the fact that she’s this goofy female does prevent people from taking her stuff seriously. I mean, it’s obviously a downright weird verse but there’s also moments of talented rapping here, noz. She swings just enough to intimate that she can actually rap, and there’s portions of tumbling rhythm that really just fucking sound great. The accents thing is moderately annoying, but it’s also weirdily charming and enjoyable. I mean, I can easily admit that I never paid her much attention until this freestyle because I felt like her shtick was all character with no performance (and, unfortunately, the fact that she’s female definitely factored into the fact that I never CHOSE to take her seriously), but if there’s one thing that this clip did prove to me is that this girl CAN rap really well. I’m kind’ve surprised you’re not seeing that yet, dude.
To me, this is one of the few examples of overt Wayne-biting that is actually enjoyable and somewhat forward-thinking–taking that Wayne weirdness and running with it in slightly different directions. She’s kindve the polar opposite of Drake in that sense: Drake takes cues from Wayne’s sing-songy flow and stupid-but-moderately-clever lyricism and has turned it into this watered-down slop with no bite while Nikki on the otherhand has taken Wayne’s approach (not to mention some of his techniques a la the “g-g-g-g” shit that’s straight out of “A Milli”) and is having a lot of fun with it while also rapping really well.
I don’t disagree with the fact that there’s a Lynchian quality here, but just like Lynch, I find the weirdness to be pretty fucking brilliant when you pay attention to it.
I’m embarassed I didn’t pay her no mind until now.
-e
Oct 23rd, 2009
p-417
I’m with David and Brandonsoderberg on this one.
Wheter or not Nicki is a good rapper or not is a matter of *opinion*.
That she gets hated on by male bloggers alover the internet because she mainly caters to a female, often under-age audience is *fact*. Simple as that.
Nicki Minaj consistenly gets hated on by NahRight and RapRadar in sometimes surprisingly disrespectful ways. Sad to see cocaineblunts lining up with that bunch… ok that was unfair, at least your qritique is based on your opinions on her rapping, which after all is on a level sigbificantly above NahRadars ass-pic-posting-with-a-sneer.
Oct 23rd, 2009
p-417
To broaden the argument somewhat, the case could be made that this simply comes down to a case of rap-as-identity-maker. This is what a typical Nicki Minaj fan looks like:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=visHF8yGLTE
1. That girl might be the absolute identity-counter-point to who most rap-blogger “are”.
2. She’s obviously “checking for nicki as a rapper” enough to lipsynch her verse
Music journalism in general has a long history of ignoring and/ridiculing the musical tastes of young females. But, just as the ignorance makes people like “us” root even harder for “our” Gucci’s and Boosies, all this hating probably just makes Nicki cooler in the eyes of her fans. Nicki herself is signing boobs as we speak.
Oct 23rd, 2009
p-417
small addition:
That girl might be the absolute identity-counter-point to who most rap-blogger “are”, or would like to be.
Oct 23rd, 2009
emynd
P-417 is killing it right now. And Nikki kills that 5 Star Bitch verse.
I’ve been checking her youtubes all morning. There’s a lot of mini-Wayne bullshit that’s pretty boring, but she has her moments.
-e
Oct 23rd, 2009
Therm
As a side note: what the hell is that beat for #17 “Niggas” off of “It’s Barbie Bitch”? Forgettable rapping, although Noz and some of yall might like it more – she flips into Lil Kim/Biggie-isms about halfway through the tape with some material that is clearly dated. She has a line about wanting to screw Stack Bundles, and not in any kind of zombie way. But that’s aside from the point – what the f-ck is that beat?
Oct 23rd, 2009
9 EAST
Yeah Nicki is trash… atleast that freestyle wuz! There are tons of successful independent female rappers in the game The Deal could have had freestyle WHY? Nicki??? Don’t answer that we all know!!! @THEHOUSTONGIRL *** if u like the rapper BOSS from the 90’s u might like this NEW! female rapper who goes by the name of La Femme Nikita. I just got up on her last year when I seen her spit a freestyle on Rap City before the show got canceled! This chick is dope and extremely pretty could easily rap circles around Nicki (not that that’s so hard to do) lol but yeah check her out THEHOUSTONGIRL!!
Oct 23rd, 2009
Al
There are lots of good female rappers and lots of good rappers with weird animated delivery styles, but if you’re really truly sticking up for this shit you’re not picking your battles very well.
The ultimate Minaj trainwreck imo is her performance in the “5 Star Chick” video, where it becomes clear that no amount of slick editing can make her schtick not seem kind of haphazard and desperate.
Oct 23rd, 2009
noz
“The only shit i tend to object to is out-of-hand writing off of an entire gender’s ability to rap (oh yeah aside from the mc lyte ‘exceptions’ obv) which youve done on numerous occasions”
Link please? The single blog post that you’ve now obsessed over for years was about how women have historically been unable to make rap albums on a quality level of their male peers. In it I put most of the fault on outside sources and biases in the industry. But okay.
At the very least you have to recognize that this Nicki video is divisive as fuck, if not undeniably horrible. Prior to seeing it I didn’t give her much thought at all. She might as well have been Frenchie or Lil Twist, just another voice on Gucci and wayne tapes. But I read this verse as bad rapping. If she had a dick it would still be bad rapping to me.
But you want to shift the argument into gender studies territory. FWIW I don’t think I’ve ever seen you write about women rappers seriously outside of SS and comment window freak outs about how they don’t get any respect.
Oct 23rd, 2009
brandonsoderberg
Seeing her live on that dopey Wayne/Jeezy/Souljaboy tour made also create my bias, she was pretty dope and WONDERFULLY enjoyable.
Oct 23rd, 2009
DQ
Brandon “on some pomo Cyndi Lauper shit” Soderberg, you and your homies might gather to discuss Lady Gaga’s blazin’ 8 on Poker Face, and maybe there’s nothing wrong with that, but it doesn’t have all that much to do with rapping well. You never really seem to get beyond a “songs on the radio”-type immersion in hip hop, and you are partial to the conception of it as a subdivision of pop.
Minaj may be confronting the spectacle with its own irrelevance or shilling for mindless consumerism or making “fun” sounding stuff for children, but she’s not rapping well (and she’s not a feminist icon lol). The “jejejejejejessica” is treading water in empty desperation, “want some cheese lots and lots of cheese” painful riding the beat at a kindergarten level, and the “and when i’m …” “and when you” “and when i’m” is so clumsily waiting for the beat it feels like drowning. We’re so far from competency at that stage it’s amazing when the last line is actually enunciated with a fitting syncopation.
It must be great to convince yourself you like this since it means you get to castigate “all the hipster sexists here” who don’t. (You should read Žižek on who it is you’re naming hipster, btw.) No doubt the non-sexists are so interested in women in hip hop they followed Noz’ recent link to listen to Davey D’s two-part interview with Medusa. No, wait, there were no pictures and no video. My bad.
Oct 23rd, 2009
markmar
lol @ “recent link to Davey D’s interview with Medusa”…yeah, that’s about all the female coverage you’ll get from Noz…(unless she’s from jersey)
Oct 23rd, 2009
MF
What would Doc Zeus think about all this?
Oct 23rd, 2009
DANJ!
Really… I don’t get it.
If Nicki Minaj is a terrible rapper, then surely these two characters that follow her (ESPECIALLY OJ) would fall into the even wacker category. I don’t know what’s so particularly bad about Minaj’s verse that makes it so much worse than OJ’s. Really… someone being worse than OJ Da Juuuuuuuuu Mayne is a pretty hefty task.
-D!
Oct 23rd, 2009
Trap Counselor
I like how this is a “freestyle” that was clearly, and evidently, written. Except that Wayne doesn’t “write” anything down, even though we all watch Mad Men and he probably has several weed carriers that transcribe his ramblings. It’s pretty obvious that he’s just dumping all his lollipop-esque, female perspective raps on Nicki, and they are predictably bad, but he’ll get at least %50 of her album that’ll surely drop when he’s in the pokey. At least her robot moves are giving everyone boners otherwise this post wouldn’t have 50+ comments.
Oct 23rd, 2009
DQ
Markmar: I’ll take that as a no then. I picked that because it was just a few days ago. Though Medusa has been covered extensively here, actually Trina is probably the rapper who has been written about most. And when she gets hated on, the haters haven’t been called sexist.
Personally I’d like to see more on rappers Noz seems to find interesting be they Trina, Medusa, Rah Digga, Pink Dollaz, Sha-Rock, Mia X, or Magnolia Shorty, but unless you wanna go retro perhaps it’s a facet of the industry itself, like Medusa says, they seem to feel there can only be one female MC at a time. So if y’all wanna push for Minaj to be that one…
Oct 23rd, 2009
DQ
LOL @ http://www.cbrap.com/?p=4751#comment-313364 MF’s blog is great, btw, everybody.
It’s interesting that regional scenes like NO bounce, jerking and that around the good life have been a way of escaping that kind of atomization and tokenism of “the female MC” and they are not exactly alien to Blunts readers.
Oct 23rd, 2009
Emynd
If Nicki Minaj spit that verse at the Blowed, I bet she wouldve gotten a huge applause. She kills that shit.
-e
Oct 23rd, 2009
noz
Well she’s no Pigeon John, that’s for sure.
Oct 23rd, 2009
BENJY
im just gonna read the youtube comments about how fat her pussy is then the ones in here
Oct 23rd, 2009
david
noz yr totally misreading this
1) i think this verse / performance was goofy & corny & generally bad
2) but i also feel that way about Drake’s performances, & waka flocka’s too
3) i dont see how nicki minaj’s is any worse than either of these artists … & the disproportionate amount of hate youre throwing her way is not, per se, ’sexist,’ but it is ‘very interesting’ in light of past remarks youve made about women’s abilities to rap
and however you want to downplay your ‘no girls allowed’ post on xxl, it was still pretty ridiculous & served as much to reinforce existing biases
its also pretty tiresome how any time someone brings this stuff up you start marginalizing it as “ohhh feminist theories” like youre gordon gartrelle talking about gucci mane blogers
Oct 23rd, 2009
david
*bloggers
further i think minaj’s verses on “five star bitch” & “slumber party” are solid, b-list guest verses. calling her the ‘worst rapper alive’ is so far out of bounds for what shes involved with & i cant help but think its because shes rapping about shit chicks care about that makes you feel this way.
Oct 23rd, 2009
noz
“past remarks youve made about women’s abilities to rap”
Again, post links or shut the fuck up.
Oct 23rd, 2009
bding7
a) Why not bring back the bring backs and just repost “why janey can’t rap” (or whatever it’s called) and let us decide for ourselves?
b) I seem to recall something about if Malachi the Nutcracker had rapped over the beats of Supa Dua Fly, it would be a classic. Now, that is just a comment about Missy’s rapping ability, but I think that’s one of the points David is hinting at, no?
Oct 23rd, 2009
hook
yo she made a bad choice with the robot voice, but with the exception of the “more cheese” line her lyrics were WAAAAY better than Wacka Flocka’s (can’t even type that with a straight flace) and ESPECIALLY Juiceman’s. Come on now. Knock her for trying to be avant garde or what have you, but lyrically she did not take an L to those two. I have yet to hear Yung Ju Man outrap ANYONE.
Oct 23rd, 2009
hook
and btw, 66 comments on this post? wtf??
Oct 23rd, 2009
noz
I do regret making a qualitative call with this post. Really, it is notable not as a bad rap verse, but as a weird one. I see it as a horribly failed experiment. Which, yeah, I guess is sort of admirable in a sense. But it really is the first time in a long while I’ve heard and seen rapping so bad that it made me uncomfortable. Waka and Juice are just passively boring to me. I was actively troubled by the Nicki verse.
The worst rapper alive is pure, knee jerk hyperbole. Probably Drag On or Bow Wow or somebody has spit a worse verse on BET at one point or another.
Oct 23rd, 2009
noz
And David if it makes you feel better I’m quite certain I have called Drake the worst rapper alive on the internet at one point or another.
Oct 23rd, 2009
Brownsound
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfqgkgMOvZs
Hm…
Oct 23rd, 2009
AJ
Am I the only one who noticed she is rapping in a baby voice?
How cool would it be if these three formed a supergroup and beefed with Slaughterhouse?
Oct 23rd, 2009
DQ
Shit Chicks Care About:
1. Barbie
2. Pink Ferraris
3. Sarah Jessica Parker
4. Cheese sandwiches
5. Private jets
Oct 23rd, 2009
david
now do a list for OJ & ’shit dudes care about’
Oct 23rd, 2009
padraig
isn’t it ironic that out of all the female MCs who to pick up a microphone Nikki Minaj somehow becomes the flashpoint for internet bboys critiquing sexism in hip hop? and that CB of all places comes under fire when sexism, which is obv endemic in rap, is like much, much worse in loads of other places?
also, someone referencing Zizek in a CB post. well, it was inevitable I guess. has he written anything about rap? I’ve no idea but he very well could’ve given his predilection for writing about pop culture.
Oct 23rd, 2009
LK
You’re just mad that she gets to ride in planes by herself.
And David, she doesn’t care if you’re a feminist. That trick only works on white lesbians. Nicki Minaj doesn’t want a hearty defense in the comment section of a blog post on CB. She wants cheese.
Oct 23rd, 2009
noz
“You’re just mad that she gets to ride in planes by herself. ”
Not even with a pilot?
Oct 23rd, 2009
LK
I thought she was a pilot? I mean, who isn’t.
Oct 23rd, 2009
noz
“I thought she was a pilot?”
But then she’s not riding in a plane, she is flying one.
David? Your female rap expertise is needed.
Oct 23rd, 2009
LK
Ah snap! Shit, this verse really IS complex. Or, to quote the YouTube user CaramelEgo: “nicki minaj is not thick you lame ass ___ they are butt and hip pads you stupid ass dickhead,stay ya retarted ass in school you dumb fuck,and nicki minaj don’t won’t ya broke ugly ass,if she saw ya ugly out out on the street? she wouldn’t give ya dirty ass no play”
Oct 23rd, 2009
nico
LK is killin it haha
Oct 24th, 2009
coke rat
i don’t know how i feel about this. on one hand, it’s really contrived and try-hard, on the other hand…it’s kind of cute and funny.
Oct 24th, 2009
JO
we can all agree that her album will never come out. ever.
Oct 24th, 2009
markmar
LK and DQ need to fall back. Noz is quite capable of defending himself. If you’re really feeling that sorry for him- you could always offer him
a blow job in real life? Just a suggestion.
Oct 24th, 2009
DR. NO
Yall are trippin- Yeah maybe lyrically Minaj’s verse was ambitious or some such but she definitely didn’t pull it off. You have to have Wayne-like mic presence to pull of that A-milli style. She’s just didn’t imo.
I think part of the weirdness of this whole clip is the body language. OJ & Wakka look non-committal, Wakka’s swaying the counter while OJ is frozen stiff, then OJ starts to nod and smile during Minaj’s verse only to look kind of distant when she does her cheese shit. Minaj goes all out but her hands on hips, stationary stance intensifies my discomfort with her rapping while looking at the camera and shit- I can’t even look her in the eye on youtube while she raps like that!!
This is all a testament to Gucci’s buzz- I can’t recall the last time a rapper’s buzz was so strong his anemic crew got burn like Brick Squad. Also, this is a Cocaine Blunts hall of fame post- yall guilt tripped Noz into saying he regretted calling this shit wack! Ha! This shit is other worldly in its wackness and I love Gucci! Plus Minaj is hardly a poster child for Women’s lib- she’s wearing a fucking Barbie chain! Please.
Oct 24th, 2009
DQ
didn’t mean to confuse u into troubling emotions marmar, but homophobia in rap discourse is a whole ‘nother thread!
Oct 24th, 2009
MAYNHOLUP
dis iz funny. bump sum Ro guys, iss MUCH mo thowed den Nick Minaj.
Oct 24th, 2009
MF
I don’t see what the problem is with people not liking female rappers when, essentially, rap is little more than a dick swinging contest set to music. Male fantasy bullshit just doesn’t work coming from the fairer sex.
There was a piece about female rappers in HHC in the 90s which proposed that it’s impossible to hear a great song by a female rapper and not think “yeah, but ____ (male rapper) would’ve sounded better on this beat” that nailed the main problem with femme rappers.
I can listen to Afro Puffs and love it for what it is, but there’s always that voice in the backwater of my mind asking “why didn’t Snoop or Dogg Pound get this beat instead?”.
Oct 24th, 2009
louder
her shit is fake from the waist down, she can’t maneuver cause she might expose her plasstic, her voice confuses me too, shut up with that ’straight drop’ nonsense
Oct 24th, 2009
LK
I’m not here to defend Noz. Just to annoy David.
Oct 24th, 2009
LK
Also, the 2nd link, w/ the “I want cheese” line looped is more fun to listen to than her freestyle. Been playing that over and over again.
Oct 24th, 2009
walkmasterflex
it’s a sad day in cocaineblunts history when a throwaway blog post about nicki minaj nears 100 comments in discussion while a post about a great huntsville mixtape garners a measly 2.
Oct 24th, 2009
MF POON
blud i gotta say i was down wen all the ppl at bb kings started throwin up the w and booin after juceman performed, that dood is a fool
that freestyle session was hilarious tho
and yea waka floca flame is a raw ass rap name
Oct 24th, 2009
MF POON
plus i think nicki manaj and kool keith shud get on a trak
Oct 24th, 2009
DQ
rap is little more than a dick swinging contest set to music. Male fantasy bullshit just doesn’t work coming from the fairer sex.
Wrong. Afro Puffs is a battle rap, there’s no fantasy bullshit involved, it’s a rap about skills. Being “tough enough” to walk up in the spot and beat shit out of MCs takes no particular imaginative leap or special suspension of disbelief on the listeners’ part whatsoever. “Women can’t be ill on the mic while talking about being ill on the mic because i don’t think they can be ill on the mic” is just circular sexism. SMH at wanting the Dogg Pound on it instead.
“Unfucwitable” is better tho.
And everyone knows Shanté fucked up Busy Bee at the NMS in ‘85, fuck a Kurtis Blow.
Oct 24th, 2009
LK
That Latifah song ‘Jersey State of Mind’ is pretty ill. Thank god she wrote all her verses!!
No but it is a good song.
PS Lauryn Hill? Eh?
Oct 24th, 2009
LK
Also, I seriously ate a cheese sandwich for lunch. Had a huge subconcious-concious urge for one after this freestyle. Metaphors aside, nothing like a cheese sandwich (no gouda).
Oct 24th, 2009
DR. NO
^^^^
Ha! I ate some fried chicken and french fries from a local take out spot, I attribute that to the ‘huge subconscious urge’ that originated with listening to the Clipse/Cam’ron joint this morning. Seeing Killa devour fries while Malice & Pusha spit had me thinking ‘damn I could use some Cajun seasoning..’
Oct 24th, 2009
DQ
Propose not starting to name random songs and MCs we like without a wider point beyond their existing.
Yeah i ate a pretty good cheese sandwich myself today.
Oct 24th, 2009
LK
Post 100! No, but honrstly (honest and earnest combo), I can see how Nicki Minaj is a totally different beast than OJ, Wocka or Gucci. Her flow and lyrics are simplistic but lack the ‘world building’ a lot of great rappers with simplistic flows bring to the table. Cash as cheese and Sarah Jessica Parker references are too much in our world.. It lacks the WTF did he (or she, for David) just say references and images that sometimes come with a, say, Gucci verse.
On the flip side, there’s something god damned compelling about her performance it’s not Eli Porter compelling… Porter doesn’t seem aware of how below water he is (save for the Bisexual Bridal Shower line… Eli we miss you). If you have to compare Minaj to a YouTube rapper, I’d say she’s more Reh Dogg than Eli Porter.
But despite what many read as desperation, I see a rapper in full control of what she’s doing.
Oct 24th, 2009
david
hey LK considering u probably werent even checking for gucci before i put u on to him how about you stfu with the sociological-literary theorizing & listen to a verse of hers that isnt bad:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSZ02vUJsgQ&feature=player_embedded
Oct 24th, 2009
david
the funny shit about me getting clowned here is im not even making some hyper-pc argument for her being a great rapper, nor am i dropping mad feminist academic theories, & im not even pulling some contrarian schtick about how the cheese verse is “ACTUALLY” great — im just pointing out the pretty obvious fact that if she was a dude, she wouldnt be getting this much hate. if she was a dude who starred on a canadian teen soap, in fact, shed be considered the second hottest rapper in the game by MTV.
Like, the fact that I even say “shes bad, but not as bad as you’re making it seem” deserves a whiplash marginalizing & ‘dude is trying to fuck her lololol’ responses, really?
Oct 24th, 2009
david
“padraig
isn’t it ironic that out of all the female MCs who to pick up a microphone Nikki Minaj somehow becomes the flashpoint for internet bboys critiquing sexism in hip hop?”
1) i dont see anyone criticiquing “sexism in hip hop,” i see ppl critiquing it in this particular forum of discussion, and its not ‘ironic’ — shes the most popular rising female rapper right now so it kinda makes sense.
“and that CB of all places comes under fire when sexism, which is obv endemic in rap, is like much, much worse in loads of other places?”
great point — anti semitism also ok now because it was way worse in ’30s germany, white dudes dropping n-bombs is cool cuz at least youre not lynching, etc etc etc
Oct 24th, 2009
AJ
There is nothing in this verse that explicitly indicates she is rapping about cheese sandwiches — she says she wants her sandwich (or “sammich”) with lots and lots of cheese, but an abundance of cheese doesn’t preclude other sandwich material (meat or otherwise).
Oct 24th, 2009
monique r.
You’re not getting clowned, David. This post [and related "discussion"] is bullshit.
Oct 24th, 2009
noz
This is only the third post in the history of this site to break 100 comments.
Oct 24th, 2009
LK
We’re not talking about other verses by her, David. And if Drake rapped the same verse, his career would be over. Though his content is rarely exciting, he’s known mostly for generically ‘dense’ verses. If you can’t hear the difference, you’re deaf. You’re the king of jumping to conclusions, dude.
Oct 24th, 2009
DQ
It’s true it’s a shtick, from gangsta to Aqua. I guess it just sounds like desperation to me in a rapping and in a career context.
Oct 24th, 2009
nico
wow. we done yet?
Oct 24th, 2009
noz
Oct 24th, 2009
what?
Two things:
1. They are all wack.
2. If you think any of them comes close to Drake talent-wise you are dumber than a roomful of their fans.
Oct 24th, 2009
brandonsoderberg
Sincerity will always lose over at Cocaine Blunts.
Oct 24th, 2009
nico
Damn… I really thought that wonderful pic of cube would end this. Oh well.
Oct 24th, 2009
Jon
She literally started rapping two years ago because she thought everybody was weak. She said as much in fewer words. In this BET ‘freestyle’, she is the baddest and the worst, all at the same time. Everything about that verse is wrong, she shoots the moon. Which is why she gets 200% on the exam. To be that perfectly wrong is its own perfection. And if we’re offended, it’s only because we are confronted with the perfect wrongness of our times. She has mastered the state of the Art (such as it now is) precisely because she has absolutely no respect for it. ‘She doesn’t have the to pull off that A’Milli shit’? No. Whatever that is, Wayne doesn’t have that neither. Naked Emperess/Whore of Babylon/Genius.
Oct 24th, 2009
padraig
so, David, you’re telling me So Many Shrimp isn’t full of posts dedicated to all kinds of crazily misogynistic rap? which, whatever, but then at the same time you’re the virtuous defender of female MCs everywhere? give me a f**king break, bro. I’m not condoning anything, I’m just saying it’s a bit rich for you to get all up in arms when you let worse shit go by every day, all the time. (& anyway, isn’t this the same david that is fond of spouting off all kinds of nutty homophobic BS? if it’s not then apologies but I’m fairly sure it is, so).
Nikki Minaj is an art school product on some meta-meta conceptual art tip, and more power to her. I just wonder if so many dudes would be defending her if, yunno, she didn’t take suggestive pictures with lollipops (again, nothing on her).
Oct 24th, 2009
nico
Man… ain’t nothin to do with her sex or gender or whatever! She’s wack!
Oct 24th, 2009
nico
In fact, I think if I heard a dude spit those raps.. I’d probably think he was even wacker. What’s that say for sexism?
Oct 24th, 2009
bding7
isn’t this the same david that is fond of spouting off all kinds of nutty homophobic BS?
no, no it isn’t.
Oct 24th, 2009
Jon
Drake’s all lyrical, earnest, heartfelt, soul-eyed and stuff- yuck-How inauthentic. Far more respectable are the Nikki Minaj’s of the world. No need to dress it up. The 808 woof woof cause she ride it good, and bitches can’t find they man cause she ride it good. Only thing you can ask her is how she want her sandwiches.
We hate her because she reminds us that the male Ardipithecus’s who could walk upright could carry cheese sandwiches to their hot female Ardipithecus’s would get to enjoy her riding it good and have healthy babies with her. She represents the rude noises made by gas escaping dying human bodies. She is the cynical fixed point of cultural evolution, the brass tax of it all. And she will be paid handsomely for it.
God I love this country.
Oct 24th, 2009
zee
“Nikki Minaj is an art school product on some meta-meta conceptual art tip”
ahahhahahahhahaha you must be joking. You’re giving her too much credit. Her performance is insanely annoying and she’s probably an idiot. where’s Pink Dollaz??!!
But people saying “I could do that” is as lame as going to the modern art museum and saying “my kid could do that.” then do it jerk haha
Oct 24th, 2009
nico
jon – too abstrrract, dog.
Oct 24th, 2009
David
theres plenty of sexist rap @ somanyshrimp & in my cd collection. ive never claimed otherwise. love the sinner, hate the sin and all that. im not sure how that relates to my observation here that if nicki minaj were a dude, she would not be getting the same hate, or why owning a project pat cd means im stupid to point this out
Oct 24th, 2009
Jon
If Nicki Minaj were a dude, she would not be getting the same hate. But she would also not be getting the same love. Which is why folks hate. And love.
Nicki Minaj is far from a victim of sexism, rather, sexism is the product she is out there hustling. Sex(ism) packets, a one or a two, I just sell them, I cannot do this love (duh duh duhhhhduh)
Oct 25th, 2009
nico
my burnin heart!
Oct 25th, 2009
walkmasterflex
i wanted to do a critical analysis of why pink dollaz >>>>> nicki minaj in terms of both skill and style, but shit i am not adding fuel to this burning trainwreck of a post
Oct 25th, 2009
SergDun
I didn’t read any of these comments but I like her verse and really don’t see how people can like Farmers Market of the Beast and then consider her theatrics to be gimmicky as if it’s really that much of a departure from a style that people jocked 15 years ago. Her facial expressions and delivery are what makes this shit and I don’t know anythin about this girl other than this verse but I’m checking for her now.
Oct 25th, 2009
chris
“I didn’t read any of these comments but I like her verse and really don’t see how people can like Farmers Market of the Beast and then consider her theatrics to be gimmicky as if it’s really that much of a departure from a style that people jocked 15 years ago. Her facial expressions and delivery are what makes this shit and I don’t know anythin about this girl other than this verse but I’m checking for her now”
Exactly. Only difference being she’s not trying to revel in 90’s LA prog-rap, but making NY rap more interesting and existing as pretty much the only good female rapper left in the mainstream consciousness. So she’s going to rap about the same stuff Eve rapped about and Kim rapped about but in a much more Wayne-warped fashion, i.e. money, cliched “girly” things and high fashion, sex, cocaine, her personal struggles etc.
The comments section has swellled because this site is clearly at a point where you’ll continue to frothily rhapsodize about regional obscurities, regardless of quality occasionally, but when a rapper that exist to simply be animated and catchy comes out the pitchforks suddenly come out blazing.
I dare anyone to listen to “Beam Me Up Scotty” twice and not find a couple of songs they end up digging despite her occasional lapse into dumbness or shallow “woe-is-me” sista-girl balladry.
No one’s positing her as the new Lauryn or anything, but you’d think by the reactions people have had to this freestyle, which yes, was a bit of a misstep quality wise, that she was actually doing something innately offensive to the tastes of people who will never be able to shake the irony and privilege from their willfully contrarian rap coverage.
TL;DR version: Get the sticks out of your asses.
Oct 25th, 2009
LK
Nicki Minaj’s real name is Nicki Maraj.
Oct 25th, 2009
Jon
You know, Circus got a whole lot of “that guy has no business rapping” type reactions to his Farmer’s Market verse too. So, maybe that comes with the territory when you ride that thin line between genius and idiot.
I, however, welcome the shallow absurdity of her oeuvre. Hands on surgically augmented hips, she is the robo-Maria simulacrum from Metropolis. Or so she would have it. I weep for the little girl inside the robot. She just wants more cheese. Lots and lots of cheese. More power to her.
Oct 26th, 2009
noz
“You know, Circus got a whole lot of “that guy has no business rapping” type reactions to his Farmer’s Market verse too. So, maybe that comes with the territory when you ride that thin line between genius and idiot.”
Well that’s sort of the nature of making experimental music. It is divisive. Which is sort of the point of this post. Nicki’s motives weigh heavily on this verse’s success. How intentional is her weirdness? I don’t fault anybody for disliking that Circus verse any more than I fault someone for liking Nicki’s. In fact Circus has made quite a few songs that I would describe as horrible.
“Hands on surgically augmented hips, she is the robo-Maria simulacrum from Metropolis. ”
Oh.
Oct 26th, 2009
chris
Considering the shift from slightly interesting yet still sort of generic female NY mixtape rapper when she debuted on Da Drought 3 two years ago (”You’ll be Harry Potter and I’ll be Hermione”) to now, her weirdness is clearly heavily pre-meditated. But is that a negative? Not everyone’s Wesley Willis or Daniel Johnston or even more directly NORE or Ghostface or ODB. Genuinely odd people are a minority and really she’s just willfully quirky if anything.
Oct 26th, 2009
noz
Is fake quirk defensible?
Oct 26th, 2009
SergDun
being weird with no point is stupid, but if her attempt at being intentionally weird develops into something more genuine then i say go for it. It’s interesting and considering how many boring rappers are out there with shittier gimmicks than a robot voice and weird posture I have no problem with her trying to pull this shit off.
Oct 26th, 2009
Therm
The reason this comment section is so long has more to do with Nicki Minaj than Noz or hip-hop blog feminists. This past weekend I caught a bunch of different rap heads talking about her. Time will tell if she’s going to spin this buzz into a career, or freak of the week – which leads me to my next point:
Fake quirk is defensible in pop music, so far as Madonna has been able to make a career out of it (and then every white chick after her.) Remember that the currency of pop music is spectacle, not artistic integrity. Those that win are the greatest showmen – or in this case showwomen. Of course, this has to be paired with a modicum of musical ability, but I’ve already defended Nicki Minaj’s abilities as a rapper. With a decent work ethic and a good team around her she could be here for a long time.
Oct 26th, 2009
Therm
One more thing, I guessing a large part of why she’s moving like a robot is because she’s wearing fake hips, clothing that’s bursting at the seams, and 5 inch heels.
Hating Nicki Minaj is kinda like hating Hillary Clinton. To some there is nothing scarier than a woman incredibly determined to claw her way to the top.
Oct 26th, 2009
padraig
“Is fake quirk defensible?”
if it’s sincere. it’s true that not everyone can be inherently weird but we can all believe in what we do & I reckon artists, in all mediums, can lend a certain degree of authenticity to what they do by being sincere about it. tho the concept of sincerity can be a slippery one, & that isn’t a catchall excuse for gross appropriation or exploitation. that’s all not to say that sincerity is a guarantee of good music, etc.
but, really, the list of fake weirdos & borderline fake weirdos who’ve made great art is too long to even get into.
(in this specific case I’ve no idea about motives & don’t really care that much anyway)
Oct 26th, 2009
chris
Isn’t everything fake quirk, though? People become interesting performers by manufacturing tics and mannerisms and etc out of not being able to spew from the sort of dust cloud that made Prince “Prince”. That’s always been the implication of the difference between “artistes” and “workmen”. The latter are studied professionals and the former are supposed to be burst of natural unaffected dynamism and difficult create energy/personality.
Like Therm said, gimmicks and physical and/or verbal Tourette’s are an essential part of pop and clearly Nicki ain’t Jean Grae. Appreciation for and defense of her stems from her cartoonishness rather than in spite of it, you know?
I mean the chick went to a performing arts high school and she definitely demonstrates that she’s picked up how to mold and exaggerate and display herself as to constantly appear interesting. Sometimes to a fault , though. Like in this freestyle, which is pretty awkward, but, awkward in the same way hearing someone do death metal vocals without backing music is. If she was on a mic and the DAT was much louder it would’ve slightly decreased the reactions she’s got.
Oct 26th, 2009
padraig
also I don’t see why a post is “trainwreck” or whatever just b/c it has a lot of comments. sometimes discussion isn’t so terrible.
Oct 26th, 2009
Reynaldo
Thanks for giving my youtube edit some shine.
Oct 26th, 2009
Jon
” I don’t fault anybody for disliking that Circus verse any more than I fault someone for liking Nicki’s. In fact Circus has made quite a few songs that I would describe as horrible.”
exactly
“Like in this freestyle, which is pretty awkward, but, awkward in the same way hearing someone do death metal vocals without backing music is. ”
Or awkward like listening to some untalented, self-absorbed spoiled brat’s talent show recital.
“That’s always been the implication of the difference between “artistes” and “workmen”. The latter are studied professionals and the former are supposed to be burst of natural unaffected dynamism and difficult create energy/personality.”
I would experience a burst of natural unaffected dynamically punch you in the throat if you said this in person. But you’re right- musicianship and musicality are the stuff of drab undifferentiated proletarian masses. Performance- now there we find the aristocratic stuff of the glorified spokesmodel I mean artist.
I think what’s really going on here is, hiphop is as usual perfectly attuned to where the actual power resides in mainstream american society. So in the technocratic 90s, rappers were technical. In the brazenly corrupt, lying my untalented ass to the bank here and now, it’s the (literally) fake assed Nick Minaj who stands as the penultimate harbinger of the (I spit hot) fire this time.
I choose to be amused.
Oct 26th, 2009
chris
Despite how fucktarded anyone sounds using the word “dynamism”, at least I choose not to be a troll.
Then again the comments section of this site is the contrary rap nerd version of Byron Crawford’s.
Oct 26th, 2009
gordon gartrelle
She’s annoying, but you can tell she has a little talent. I’ve heard worse. If she stopped with the weirdo Rich Little shit, she might be able to make some decent songs.
These comments are (unintentionally) hilarious, though.
Oct 26th, 2009
david
if she would rap naked shed be the GOAT
Oct 26th, 2009
Jon
Was I really so disruptive? This is my honest, authentic response to that so wack it’s brilliant freestyle of hers. At least I didn’t pull the bullshit ad hominem “you would hate this shit, you priviledged internet guy you- kids in the streets love this shit”. I mean maybe we just know different kids in different streets or some ****. Or maybe you know the ones at the high school you teach at and I know the ones the homegirl teach at. Or I know the ones who got out in 05, went in the bing in 06, and came back out. Or maybe that’s the shittiest way to argue about anything I ever heard of. I think we have, however, reached an important concensus on this chick: she is to prosthetic asses and leopard pants what Circus is to chin straps and cave man costumes.
Oct 26th, 2009
chris
Where are you pulling this out of? All that defensive reaching is telling.
Oct 26th, 2009
Jon
meh, the words like privilege and phrases like black teens in pittsburgh in pro-nicki posts, and like get used to it she’ll be around for a while and blah blah. It’s like, amateur ethnography aside, homie how do *you* feel.
Right now, I feel like she probably just reminds me of an ex I probably have unresolved feelings about, hence the expansive ramblings.
She is an art rapper though isn’t she? Even shouts out the Pedestrian and everything.
Oct 26th, 2009
Therm
@Jon: I know this is the internets, but it’d be a better use of all our time if you argued with points that make some sort of sense.
Oct 26th, 2009
Jon
fixed point: she is to prosthetic asses and leopard pants what Circus is to chin straps and cave man costumes. That’s as good or bad as you like.
Oct 26th, 2009
Supreme Neck Protector
I think Nicki Minaj is sexy.
I don’t much like this verse.
But I like her “Five Star Bitch” verse.
The rice-cooker line is funny.
That’s all I have to say about this.
That’s it.
Oct 28th, 2009
Hele Fitta
http://nahright.com/news/2009/10/27/video-nicki-minaj-buckshot-crown-royal-joe-budden-2009-bet-hip-hop-awards-cypher-1/
Nikki “freestyling” over “funky drummer”(!). Feeling this a lot more than the acapella thing. To me it seems like she has her moments, or at least attempts to do something interesting/a lil different that works sometimes but other times …
Oct 28th, 2009
MF
Battle time :
“The black Sarah J-J-J-J-J-Jessica” VS. Jimmy Spicer’s Dracula voice on Super Rhymes.
Oct 28th, 2009
lilfeedr
“the best part about this is oj da juiceman essentially speaking in another language before beginning his verse, and if you disagree you’re wrong
”
hahahahahha
ya’ll writin a novel with these comments. nikki minaj for the win definitly
Oct 31st, 2009
lilfeedr
hahah as much as i love oj i think he has brain damage
Oct 31st, 2009
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